NL Bots on Full Tilt

[$crooge]

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what part of it being a "system" don't you undestand. We created it together, and studied it together. And then we try to give each other advice during our sessions...all of this will create identical numbers...and all of this is allowed by FTP T&C

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I'm obviously not nearly as smart as you guys, but I'm always willing to learn. Could you please elaborate on the post-flop part of your shared strategy that seems to have nothing to do with the actual cards on the board, the number of players in the pot or the pre-flop actions of the players?

[BluffTHIS!]

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BluffThis,

even though you are basically a glorified troll these days when it comes to online poker ethics/legalities and for some reason enjoy playing devil's advocate in every discussion, i will continue to answer questions as best as i can. whether you choose to believe me is up to you, and it will not change what happens to these accounts as action has already been taken and concluded.

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Then address the previous questions from myself and others on how *post-flop* play with its far greater number of situations including multiple streets can still produce identical stats. Either address this issue or STFU.

[NOSUP4U]

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what part of it being a "system" don't you undestand. We created it together, and studied it together. And then we try to give each other advice during our sessions...all of this will create SOMEWHAT SIMILAR numbers preflop and much less exact number post flop ...and all of this is allowed by FTP T&C

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Fixed your post too.

Mark

[nation]

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what part of it being a "system" don't you undestand. We created it together, and studied it together. And then we try to give each other advice during our sessions...all of this will create identical numbers...and all of this is allowed by FTP T&C

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DOESN'T EXPLAIN POST-FLOP. ANSWER THE [censored] QUESTION ADDRESSED TO YOU EARLIER ON THIS!

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you are absolutely retarded if you don't think it's possible for players playing a limit and level the exact same way to accrue the same stats by working together on postflop decisions, especially when they're playing right next to each other.

[Fat Nicky]

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If FT is in fact unwilling to re-open the investigation, or at the very least to provide a FAR greater explanation for their rationale in clearing those accounts, then this will be an unmitigated public relations and customer service DISASTER for them.

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while i agree that it would be a disservice to their players if they fail to re-open this investigation, i doubt it will change much in regards to public relations, and i'm sure they won't lose more than 10-20 players.

personally, while i would be unhappy w/FTP, i would still play on their site. in todays online poker environment, there simply aren't enough choices.

[ianisakson]

maybe chuck and his crew are soo smart that they actually found a way that some bot system works within the T&C of full tilt. Whatever they are doing is working and since we don't really know what they are doing we can't really say if it's wrong. but i'm going to assume that their system is unethical because they are going through a lot of work to cover their tracks, all of their stats from all streets line up perfectly, and they are making money. they aren't trying to improve their game, this is a huge red flag to me because any time you get 4 poker players together in a room there is some sort of discussion going on as to how to play a hand better. Something unethical is going on with their system, it is obviously completely within the T&C of full tilt but shouldn't be. If not, i'm going to do this myself and hire 100 people to come sit in a room and play exactly according to a system that I make that beats their system, and i'll have all the money on full tilt.

[BluffTHIS!]

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what part of it being a "system" don't you undestand. We created it together, and studied it together. And then we try to give each other advice during our sessions...all of this will create identical numbers...and all of this is allowed by FTP T&C

[/ QUOTE ]


DOESN'T EXPLAIN POST-FLOP. ANSWER THE [censored] QUESTION ADDRESSED TO YOU EARLIER ON THIS!

[/ QUOTE ]

you are absolutely retarded if you don't think it's possible for players playing a limit and level the exact same way to accrue the same stats by working together on postflop decisions, especially when they're playing right next to each other.

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And you are retarded if you think that they:

a) have worked out a book for a 1000 different situations involving different players, flop textures, turn and river cards and stack sizes;

AND

b) could even execute same with 99% precision if they did have that playbook.

[NOSUP4U]

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you are absolutely retarded if you think it's possible for players playing a limit and level the exact same way to accrue the same stats by working together on postflop decisions, especially when they're playing right next to each other.

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FYP again.

Mark

[BluffTHIS!]

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If FT is in fact unwilling to re-open the investigation, or at the very least to provide a FAR greater explanation for their rationale in clearing those accounts, then this will be an unmitigated public relations and customer service DISASTER for them.

[/ QUOTE ]

while i agree that it would be a disservice to their players if they fail to re-open this investigation, i doubt it will change much in regards to public relations, and i'm sure they won't lose more than 10-20 players.

personally, while i would be unhappy w/FTP, i would still play on their site. in todays online poker environment, there simply aren't enough choices.

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They and the sites are counting on that, and that accounts for their arrogant refusal to do better. Surely all here could boycott a site for at least a month without taking too big a hit. It's not like any one site is super-duper these days for US players.

[rgold79]

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2) You people that are saying the stats are 'similar' and maybe these guys all just play the same style, or that they are all in the same room using the same set of general rules to play ARE JUST CRAZY! There is no way that one individual person could record stats that EXACT over 2 100K hand sessions if they tried. Like, we aren't just talking about vpip and pfr. EVERY stat in pokertracker was identical. Every single one. I'm far from an expert, but my background is engineering and I've done a ton of statistical analysis. That is just too large a sample size for the numbers to be that exact.

PLUS you have to factor in things like tilt that come into play in poker. Are you telling me that even two guy sitting next to each other reading from the same 'playbook' of how to play, could stick to that plan so perfectly that things like tilt would just never take over?

I don't like to rush to judgement on anything, but the stats ALONE are just unbelievable enough to me for 3 people to have so exactly, and then when you factor other things in like they getting up from tables, never playing together, names linked to pittsburg, etc, the evidence seems overwhelming to me.

Mark

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Nation and sweatshop owner, care to comment?

There is no way you individually over 2 100k samples could have those identical stats, yet alone 4 different players. You honestly do not believe that is possible/logical, do you?

[/ QUOTE ] what part of it being a "system" don't you undestand. We created it together, and studied it together. And then we try to give each other advice during our sessions...all of this will create identical numbers...and all of this is allowed by FTP T&C

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Are you honestly claiming that you all played together and built up samples of 100K hands without ever being apart from one another?

There was never a night when it was late and you were alone and bored and decided to log on for a little while?

You never got tired and made mistakes counter to your system?

Honestly you may indeed have the discipline of a Tibetan Monk, but down here, in the real world, people are sloppy and make mistakes. They chase losses, they tilt after bad beats and they at least occasionally make loose calls and gamble it up. 100K is too large a sample size for EVERY stat to match so perfectly and have none of these factors come into play.