NL Bots on Full Tilt

[BluffTHIS!]

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They've already been cleared 100% by FTP, this is for your benefit and whether you believe them or not has no bearing on the fate of their accounts.

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Not so if FT thinks they might have been snowed and is willing to re-open the investigation, *especially* to determine how the explanation of the players can be true with the virtually identical stats *taking into account the far greater range of situations postflop than pre*.

[Fat Nicky]

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I wanted to address a couple things that have come up a lot in this thread:

1) People are wondering how a computer can click the buttons, enter data, etc, and saying that maybe its a program telling people what to do, with a human doing the data entry. Over 5 years ago I was using a program called WinRunner to automate testing of websites. This program would see a window, automatically 'learn' where all the buttons and data entry fields were, and allow me to program input and mouse clicks in specific time intervals, etc.
This is absolutely the type of program that is being used. You don't even need to be able to 'see' the buttons. I could program it to just 'click' in a certain space on my screen. So if you set up your tables in the same spots, then there you go, buttons are always in the same place. I could program it to wait for other input to show up on the screen (like the cards) and react certain ways to whatever it saw. This isn't even new technology. No humans are needed for this.

2) You people that are saying the stats are 'similar' and maybe these guys all just play the same style, or that they are all in the same room using the same set of general rules to play ARE JUST CRAZY! There is no way that one individual person could record stats that EXACT over 2 100K hand sessions if they tried. Like, we aren't just talking about vpip and pfr. EVERY stat in pokertracker was identical. Every single one. I'm far from an expert, but my background is engineering and I've done a ton of statistical analysis. That is just too large a sample size for the numbers to be that exact.

PLUS you have to factor in things like tilt that come into play in poker. Are you telling me that even two guy sitting next to each other reading from the same 'playbook' of how to play, could stick to that plan so perfectly that things like tilt would just never take over?

I don't like to rush to judgement on anything, but the stats ALONE are just unbelievable enough to me for 3 people to have so exactly, and then when you factor other things in like they getting up from tables, never playing together, names linked to pittsburg, etc, the evidence seems overwhelming to me.

Just think about this: If you wrote down all these rules of how to play pots, and you and a friend tried to execute them over 100K hands, do you really think you would stick to the script SO perfectly with no other human emotion involved that you could come out with the EXACT same stats? I've played poker before, so I just don't believe that is possible.

Mark

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A+++++++

These exact thoughts were going through my head

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yea, seriously, this post is as perfect as the matching PT stats.

trying to prove that these aren't bots is 1000x tougher than proving OJ is innocent.

[jcg2005]

We "continue to miss" these things because nlnut said they did not ask for details. My apologies if i missed this somewhere.

[$crooge]

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All accounts were fully exoneratedSo keep that in mind, because all of this discussion is to ease your minds that these accounts don't have bots playing on them. They've already been cleared 100% by FTP, this is for your benefit and whether you believe them or not has no bearing on the fate of their accounts.

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Regardless of whether we're dealing with bots or a team, I think that's pretty naive. These accounts are *done* with online poker, at least at FTP. I know that FTP has, on occasion, allowed screen name changes, but do you think they're really going to do that with these folks?

[nlnut]

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yeah, but you guys play so many hands. you should be improving if you play that many hands. only a robot or completely unmotivated person plays the exact same break even system without making their game better than/different than the person sitting next to them. do you guys not have brains? are you only capable of playing a set system of hands a set way?

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We make plenty of money the way we play...we are happy with it.... why fix what isn't broken?

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to me this is broken, how do you guys all have the exact same stats? do you have a big chart on the wall telling you how to play every hand in every single situation? Do you guys not ask yourself questions? or just keep playing hands the same without trying to improve? sorry, but I like to ask questions because this entire situation sounds like BS to me

[/ QUOTE ] It's a system...we learned it and use it together. Yes (for now) we do just keep playing hands the same without trying to improve.

[ianisakson]

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One big thing you guys continue to miss is that all players had to send in ID's and utility bills to FTP in the beginning of the investigation.

All accounts were fully exonerated.

So keep that in mind, because all of this discussion is to ease your minds that these accounts don't have bots playing on them. They've already been cleared 100% by FTP, this is for your benefit and whether you believe them or not has no bearing on the fate of their accounts.

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sending in ID's and utility bills only proves that these 4 accounts belong to seperate people. This does not however prove that there is some sort of program playing each of these accounts exactly the same way.

[BluffTHIS!]

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yeah, but you guys play so many hands. you should be improving if you play that many hands. only a robot or completely unmotivated person plays the exact same break even system without making their game better than/different than the person sitting next to them. do you guys not have brains? are you only capable of playing a set system of hands a set way?

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We make plenty of money the way we play...we are happy with it.... why fix what isn't broken?

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to me this is broken, how do you guys all have the exact same stats? do you have a big chart on the wall telling you how to play every hand in every single situation? Do you guys not ask yourself questions? or just keep playing hands the same without trying to improve? sorry, but I like to ask questions because this entire situation sounds like BS to me

[/ QUOTE ] It's a system...we learned it and use it together. Yes (for now) we do just keep playing hands the same without trying to improve.

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Keep saying that same [censored] over and over. IT DOES NOT ACCOUNT FOR POST-FLOP PLAY WITH MULTIPLE STREETS!

[Saborion]

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One big thing you guys continue to miss is that all players had to send in ID's and utility bills to FTP in the beginning of the investigation.

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And what this have to do with anything?

[NOSUP4U]

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One big thing you guys continue to miss is that all players had to send in ID's and utility bills to FTP in the beginning of the investigation.


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I know this is going to come off like a flame, but really I'm just wondering in what weird way your brain thinks this is proof that bots couldn't be used here? Like, what is your thought process? I can't come up with a good reason why that statement has any relevance to anyone using a bot?

Mark

[nation]

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They've already been cleared 100% by FTP, this is for your benefit and whether you believe them or not has no bearing on the fate of their accounts.

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Not so if FT thinks they might have been snowed and is willing to re-open the investigation, *especially* to determine how the explanation of the players can be true with the virtually identical stats *taking into account the far greater range of situations postflop than pre*.

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No. This is basically devolving into a "do i believe you or not" question. FTP has gone over all hand histories and mouse clicks or whatever else they track, and cleared it.

You asking your questions is not going to convince FTP to reopen the investigation, and subsequently change their mind on stuff thats apparently unprovable.