Theory Post: Dealing with Calling Stations.

[kurto]

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"I agree that if they'll never fold POST FLOP with any kind of hit or draw"

precisely! some of these guys just don't know how to fold!!! they'll go to the felt with just 1 pair! lol

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in that case... only bluff the flop (if they'll fold complete misses). Be willing to play bigger pots with top pair good kicker. Get paid off with monsters.

[Shizzle12345]

yeah some are really predictable and easy to read, if they show aggression at certain streets they got something. I once had a calling station, when he suddenly started getting fancy at the river you didnt had to be scared. Just push the guy. He then realized he called too much and was now trying to bluff and take the pot. But when he got aggressive at early streets he most likely had ur TPMK beat.

Also some calling stations will check call flop and turn, but nearly always fold river. So make sure to not check the turn on them and miss alot of value.

[b-komplex]

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I've been thinking about this issue of how to play against calling stations... the problem with playing against them is that they keep limping and calling preflop raises with junk so there's little point in raising SCs and small PPs against them because there is no fold equity, unlike when u are playing against a table with VPIP of 20%.

but when the table average has a VPIP of like 50%, i've been thinking about how to play against them and i think the way to do this is to be extremely loose on the CO/BTN so i've been limping with stuff like J8o, J7o, T6o, 58o, 92s, because these loose passive calling stations keep limping up front with trash.

i do this to catch straights or flushes and value bet value bet value bet because these donks just don't fold... they call with their gut shots, their 2nd pairs, their ace pair with trash kicker etc.

what do u guys think of this strategy

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Always raise small PPs to build a pot when you hit like Quester said, I am more inclined to limp the SCs though because a lot of the value from those is fold equity vs. a decent player holding top pair. A real passive table you can limp them early pos. I don't think limping garbage hands in late position is +EV against people that don't fold.

[TilTandWiN]

I think that many people are over simplifying calling stations. Although there are some calling stations that will call you down if they hit the smallest piece of the flop, they are rare. The more common type will have some sense about them – they will recognise some form of strength and will fold some weak holdings on the flop (say bottom pair). These are hidden calling stations because they need a reason to call your bets! (but if they have this reason they will call!)

I have played in many soft live games (which are at higher stakes than I play online but due to the difference in skill (low stake live games are weeeeeeak) I feel the play is similar to 50/25NL) where this is the case and I have found that the best way to extract value is to show small pre flop aggression (this can be a min-bet or raise to 2.5/3xBB). You must do this regularly with many wide holdings (such as 9 Js, 8 5s, 6 8s, etc). This seems to give people a reason to call your bets (as long as you occasionally bet the flop with air) and then shut down and show down you hand that has not connected with the flop on the river. I have stacked many a man using this technique.

BTW if you hit the flop make your standard ¾ pot bet and keep on ¾+ betting every street. If you do not hit, just check-fold.

This only works when you have deep stacks (100BB will make this profitable).

Another key thing that I have seen is that there are different types of calling stations – there are calling stations that feel you constantly have air (the method above gives hidden calling stations this mentality), and calling stations that constantly over value the strength of you hand but chase weird draws thinking that they will make a lot of money if they make their hand. (It is very hard to see what type of calling station a person is – they only way I know how to do this is just check past HHs and see if they are mucking middle/bottom pair or a gut shot/or a flush draw (if they were given terrible odds) – if any one has a better way of finding this out please say!). To extract value from these calling stations (the draw heavy kind) you must value every street and bet around ½ pot on the river (giving you favourable odds to pick up the pot and a high break even point).

END CRAZY CALLING STATION RANT.

[kurto]

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...Although there are some calling stations that will call you down if they hit the smallest piece of the flop, they are rare. The more common type will have some sense about them – they will recognise some form of strength and will fold some weak holdings on the flop (say bottom pair)....

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where the hell are you playing? The call any piece of the flop/any draw calling stations are rampant. And they often have big stacks because people keep cbetting them with air and the occasional suckout.

If you aren't finding these guys you are picking bad tables.

[TilTandWiN]

That is proably very true - could you give me some tips? - i feel that game selection is a massive leak for me, i have never really given it much thought - i do not have HUD or PT at the moment (will be getting this in the middle of June) so can only use the stats the site (FTP) provide.

[eigenvalue]

"Hello, here I am - limping every hand!"

This is sometimes my opening greeting when I start a short training session at NL $10 or below. And I do what I say, without any exception. The average time for me to double up playing this way is somewhere around 1 hour!

My normal game is NL $100. I use this training camp at micro limits to benefit in my normal limit, because I want to be able to switch gears. And switching gears from TAG to limping a lot of hands sometimes works at NL $100, too. The regular 2+2 TAGs will not believe it, they may see me as a terrible player, BUT IT CAN BE DONE!

To me, so far it's the most exciting experience I've ever made. It is unbelievable what sometimes happens at a table when you start switching from TAG mode to limp mode. How different the whole table suddenly plays, how much trouble players have to adjust.

And I will never forget what my result was when I first started to do it at NL $50: I was playing 3 tables for about 2 hours. Every table was running horrible, I was down $200. Everyone and her mother was drawing against me. I was dissapointed, sad, I wanted to quit that session. But I remembered that I once read this article from a pro that switching between 3 gears (super aggressive, normal TAG and lazy limping) is one of the best approaches to play 6 max. So I gave it a shot, I started to limp almost anything...

... it lasted 30 minutes and I was up $75, turning around my losses at any of my 3 tables I played at.

[kurto]

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That is proably very true - could you give me some tips? - i feel that game selection is a massive leak for me, i have never really given it much thought - i do not have HUD or PT at the moment (will be getting this in the middle of June) so can only use the stats the site (FTP) provide.

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Hello. I use PT and a HUD which is the most obvious help. If you don't have that, then I pick tables with either the highest percentage of players seeing a flop OR the highest pot sizes (often they go hand in hand).

If you sit at a table and everyone seems tight... leave.

PT and PAHUD are a worthy investment. I open 15 juicy looking tables at Full Tilt (which allows you to datamine) and datamine. I sit down at tables with multiple maniacs or calling stations. There are a lot of tables with all TAGS or TAPS... just not worth it.

[inspir3d]

"'To me, so far it's the most exciting experience I've ever made. It is unbelievable what sometimes happens at a table when you start switching from TAG mode to limp mode. How different the whole table suddenly plays, how much trouble players have to adjust. "

interesting. how does this work? how do u respond when u are raised behind u? and what are kinds of pots u usually win?

[TilTandWiN]

Thanks for your help Kurto.