"Islam needs its own Reformation"

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Fish,

MMMMMM is not talking about religious influenced values voting, but about direct religious influence in government as with clerics or religious leaders holding public office.

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Fish,

MMMMMM is not talking about religious influenced values voting, but about direct religious influence in government as with clerics or religious leaders holding public office.

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I think Fish may believe the latter is how the United States operates.

Actually, I'll try my best to read his mind and assume he's claiming the United States was *once* a "Christian" nation, but through 40 some-odd years of secular liberal agendas (foisted upon us by public schools and the liberal MSM media), we've become deluded into thinking it's not. I think it's the pretty standard conservative Christian fiction narrative we hear all the time.

Let me know if I'm wrong FlFish.

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It's funny, but sometimes Fish and canis seem like they are radically opposite personalties of some multi-personality Sybil. The posts of both have a similar tone and style.

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"Marriage of religion and governance has proved both disastrous, and anathema to human rights, throughout human history."

US history excluded, eh?

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Huh?

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Can you deny the success of the US in melding religion and government? Excepting slavery, our human rights record is superior and slavery would not have been ended without the large religious influence.

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The U.S.A. has Constitutional safeguards against governmental establishment of religion, and against restriction of religion. Don't confuse the privately held values of some elected officials, with a governmental policy of establishing a certain religion.