Limping with AK UTG early on.

[registrar]

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Yes? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Just raise it... What is your plan then if you got 5 limpers on a K108 flop? I generally don't like that play with those kind of hands... Especially first hand not!

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This is the worst case scenario. There are others.

This is the first level of a $50 SnG. When you raise to 150 UTG you most likely won't get heads up either.

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So AQ, AJ, KQs just muck because you're UTG?

[lemming]

That play only produces worst case scenarios... If you don't hit anything you get 0 value out of AKo, well done [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I'm just raising here 99% of the time...

[NickyTheDiamond]

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That play only produces worst case scenarios... If you don't hit anything you get 0 value out of AKo, well done [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I'm just raising here 99% of the time...

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why not the other 1%? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Dr1Gonzo]

It's not terrible but you need to be able to play well post flop. I think I would consider doing this more if I had a big chip stack and the blind levels were higher when you usually get less people limping and more people playing aggressively so you can reraise all in

[coatsie]

usually when i make this play my early position limps get more respect allowing me to see cheap flops. I randomize other hands aswell, the strategy is pretty much like in HOH. i figured i'd use it as he seems to know his stuff. Maybe it's aimed at larger buyin events, but with the increase of pokertracker i think more and more will notice these plays?

Good points against it tho, il try and start a bit of "friendly" banter. btw im not advocating always limping with AK UTG, its just 20%. sounds like 20% or 19% too much for most.

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What is your plan then if you got 5 limpers on a K108 flop? I generally don't like that play with those kind of hands... Especially first hand not!

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i would def slow down if its a limped pot multiway, especially on a dangerous flop. If the betting gets too aggressive with then i would have no trouble
folding TPTK, especially in the first round.

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Unless you have a note like button 'raises light over utg limpers' this is just a bad play.

Raise AK, get called by A6, profit. Limp AK, have A6 limp behind, profit less.

Also limp AK, get raised by AQ, shove, AQ puts you on aces and folds.

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good point, don't really have an argument apart from:

raise AK, called by A6, A flops. he will more likely put you on AK, AQ than if you limp, so limping could gain more value postflop. Btw do many call A6 against an UTG raiser? I know it's early in a tourney with implied odds and that
but im not good enough to call with that.

not sure how to argue example 2. hopefully someone else can

Another reason i use it is im trying to get to higher buyin events and live tournies so this will be second nature when i do, anyone vary their play PF in higher online or live tournies?

Hopefully will get shot down again, it's the only way i'l learn. need to build a think skin for this place.


coatsie

[MJBuddy]

The 20% assumes people have been watching you play actual poker for hours. Raising correctly, value betting, etc. The few times you vary are to keep people "guessing"

At least once a day I run into someone who limps too many strong hands hoping to trap; if I can I limp drawing hands along with them, and when I flop a straight over their high pockets or sets, I nail them to the wall with it. However, after an hour sitting at a table with someone and suddenly they limp and reraise me all in with my 1010 shorthanded, we have an actual player.

Don't take into account randomizing your play until you've shown everyone you can play ABC poker, then trick them.

[registrar]

The A6 example was a little flippant. Also this seems to be an STT (wrong forum) so not all of this applies. However, no one folds the flop with a starting stack if they pair their ace. If you raise AK and get a call from ATs and an ace flops and you lead, you'll get called every time, partly because THEY have flopped an ace and partly because YOU can be finding out where you're at with KK (for example). Once this happens pot:stacks ratio means it's a lot easier to get the rest in over the next two streets.

As for varying play, I believe that you don't have to do this intentionally, even if players are paying attention, until you find yourself regularly with regulars. There will be enough times that you choose to vary your play anyways because every so often a player behind or the way you have played a recent and memorable hand dictates a change of pace. I believe a thinking approach, rather than a randomising approach, is much better online.

All of this said, getting dealt a really big hand UTG does tend to suck because it's so hard to get action. However, I think our general response to this should be to open wider, rather than limp more. Also, of all the hands to open limp from ep, I think AK is the worst unless we have a good reason to think that we're getting raised very often.

Lastly, so much of our egde comes from the fact that people play pretty cards nomatter what the action from whatever position. Seriously, how many online players, whether in MTTs, STTs or cash fold KQ to a 3x raise with 75 BBs? And you'll get called wider than this by a lot too.

[nath]

Uh, doesn't this belong in the STT forum?