Dealing With Bad Players

[Monolith]

very simple: don't play that game. It sounds like you don't enjoy it; it also sounds like it's not conducive to good play for you, therefore, there is no point in playing.

[PatekPhil]

I play in a similar wild and crazy NL game where only 2 other players have any clue what is going on / have played in a live casino or online. It is frustrating. But playing a NL cash game with frequent 7 - 8 handed multiway pots IS lucrative. Bigtime. You need to adjust. My tips:

- Big hands go WAY up in value, especially if you have players who will call a big bet. In my game, slowplaying AA and KK preflop works VERY well - someone makes a cheesy raise to $8 (we play $1/2 NL) and I push with a monster and get called with all kinds of crap. Unfortunately, sometimes I get called in TOO many spots and lose a big pot. But if you push with a monster preflop and get outdrawn, you really can't complain - so long as the game will give you that action time and time again.
- Hands like KJos and ATos go DOWN in value - because EVERYONE is playing this cheese, and thinks its good. I'm not saying don't play these hands, but play them in position, cheaply and be prepared to lay them down. I DON'T raise with these sorts of hands in my game - because a typical raise won't drive anyone out, will build a bigger pot which justifies further action from suckout players etc... I'm happy to take the flop for $2 with a KJos - but unless I REALLY hit the flop, I'm done with it. I'm NOT going to try a move, nor is raising to $16 worthwhile - because I'll still be in a four-handed pot, could be dominated, and my next realistic bet is $50+ - and proabably won't scare anyone either. So, take a $2 flop and dump it when you miss.
- Small PPs an suited connectors go up in value - especially when you can see lots of cheap multi-way pots, in position. Easy to play - no hit, you're done. Big hit - then maximize your return.
- Forget bluffing unless you are fortunate enough to be able to isolate on a player who is capable of laying down a hand.
- Don't even think about sitting in this game if you have an ounce of tilt. If you can't handle seeing 92os call your preflop raised AKs and snap you off without going batty, then stick to something else.

[pfapfap]

Figure out how different people play, and play just like that back at 'em. Donk it up with the donks, bet strong with big hands to the rocks. Call down the maniacs. Agree with everything a donk says, mention how you'd have to chase that gutshot, too. Be prepared to rebuy a lot, and even lose a bit as you first adjust. This is okay, as it cements to them that you drop a lot of money and can be a losing player.

Now, use that image. Switch it all around. Lose the least to and win the most from the maniacs. Use the all-in-blind guy as a weapon. Stack the calling stations. Bask in the joy of being able to bluff with a small bet and get paid off with a big one, depending on who is in the pot. People tend to think others do things for the same reasons they do. You gotta be able to play deep stack poker. Buy in for as much as you can.

Pay attention to what a raise means. If open-raise 8x the BB gets three callers, well, then, that's a watermark. Be prepared to see a lot of flops for the insane implied odds. Also be ready and able to walk away from big hands. Be comfortable putting people on a range of hands and making the right play for that range.

And yes, as said, never, ever go on tilt. When you suffer the beats, you laugh. You realize how awful their odds were and you fantasize about burlap sacks with dollar signs on them.

[pfapfap]

Even bad players eventually figure out stuff, though, so to make the most, you're going to have to get to know these people and figure them out. For example, at one of my regular games is a guy who can play any two cards and play them well post-flop. He can build up a big stack and be quite dangerous. However, he doesn't have enough discipline, and when he's inevidably short-stacked, he's incredibly easy to manipulate. This is a 25c/50c blind game with $20-$40 initial buyin, tho' stacks tend to be in the $80-$200 range after a while. If he's at $20 or below, he's basically going to be all-in on any hand. He's actually quite useful sitting to my left.

Just last night I open-raised to $3 with KK, he pushed for $16, another maniac called (suspicious, but he was getting ready to leave, so I think just playing it safe), and I pushed for $46 on top, got called. I'm incredibly happy because I'm way ahead of first manaic's range, and even more ahead of second maniac's range when he calls 2-1. I love this game. It's been great practice and a proving ground during my development as a player. I hope it remains as such for a long time. It's also a great bunch of people, hell of a fun time.

[CORed]

[ QUOTE ]
i need help. The people I play with do not care about money at all, so they will call every bet, however most of the time the draw out on the river. I tend to beat myself up about it even though I played it right, and I lose my confidence and play bad the rest of the time. No matter how hard I try I cannot fight it, and I cannot relieve the stress. Please give me some tips.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are not winning money from these players, it might just be variance, but most likely you are as bad as they are. The key to beating players like this is to value bet and raise mercilessly when you are ahead. You will lose a lot of pots, but the ones you win will be huge. This includes your really good draws, such as flush draws and OESD's. Don't even think about trying to bluff, unless you've really been beating up on them and they start folding.

[Xamot]

[ QUOTE ]
very simple: don't play that game. It sounds like you don't enjoy it; it also sounds like it's not conducive to good play for you, therefore, there is no point in playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

he should continue to play it until he can beat it.

[morphball]

[ QUOTE ]
You might want to check out the psychology section and check out some threads about dealing with tilt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Forum is worthless. All it is a bunch of whiners crying about being broke, and idiots telling them to take a week off.

OP - you sound like every other player who sucks... [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[BozMan82]

[ QUOTE ]
I play in a similar wild and crazy NL game where only 2 other players have any clue what is going on / have played in a live casino or online. It is frustrating. But playing a NL cash game with frequent 7 - 8 handed multiway pots IS lucrative. Bigtime. You need to adjust. My tips:

- Big hands go WAY up in value, especially if you have players who will call a big bet. In my game, slowplaying AA and KK preflop works VERY well - someone makes a cheesy raise to $8 (we play $1/2 NL) and I push with a monster and get called with all kinds of crap. Unfortunately, sometimes I get called in TOO many spots and lose a big pot. But if you push with a monster preflop and get outdrawn, you really can't complain - so long as the game will give you that action time and time again.
- Hands like KJos and ATos go DOWN in value - because EVERYONE is playing this cheese, and thinks its good. I'm not saying don't play these hands, but play them in position, cheaply and be prepared to lay them down. I DON'T raise with these sorts of hands in my game - because a typical raise won't drive anyone out, will build a bigger pot which justifies further action from suckout players etc... I'm happy to take the flop for $2 with a KJos - but unless I REALLY hit the flop, I'm done with it. I'm NOT going to try a move, nor is raising to $16 worthwhile - because I'll still be in a four-handed pot, could be dominated, and my next realistic bet is $50+ - and proabably won't scare anyone either. So, take a $2 flop and dump it when you miss.
- Small PPs an suited connectors go up in value - especially when you can see lots of cheap multi-way pots, in position. Easy to play - no hit, you're done. Big hit - then maximize your return.
- Forget bluffing unless you are fortunate enough to be able to isolate on a player who is capable of laying down a hand.
- Don't even think about sitting in this game if you have an ounce of tilt. If you can't handle seeing 92os call your preflop raised AKs and snap you off without going batty, then stick to something else.

[/ QUOTE ]

By "REALLY" hitting the flop does that mean two pair or better? Or is TPGK on a drawless board good enough to fire away?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i need help. The people I play with do not care about money at all, so they will call every bet, however most of the time the draw out on the river. I tend to beat myself up about it even though I played it right, and I lose my confidence and play bad the rest of the time. No matter how hard I try I cannot fight it, and I cannot relieve the stress. Please give me some tips.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are not winning money from these players, it might just be variance, but most likely you are as bad as they are. The key to beating players like this is to value bet and raise mercilessly when you are ahead. You will lose a lot of pots, but the ones you win will be huge. This includes your really good draws, such as flush draws and OESD's. Don't even think about trying to bluff, unless you've really been beating up on them and they start folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

With regards to bluffing frequency... What about occasionally semibluffing strong draws (OESD, nut FD) if you have, say, only 1-2 opponents?

[Fathomer1977]

[ QUOTE ]
By "REALLY" hitting the flop does that mean two pair or better? Or is TPGK on a drawless board good enough to fire away?

[/ QUOTE ]

In a very loose home game I play in, yes to TPTK. So many home game players not only play Ax but Kx and Qx as well and will call down to the river even when there's a higher pair on board with no consideration to their kicker.