Somewhat sick spot at Stuper FT

[billyjex]

We just got down to the final table.

UTG raiser, I've played with for awhile now. He is playing fairly tight, on the nittier side, and pretty standard. He's got all his chips from having big hands vs. other big hands and holding up.

His range is very tight here; TT, AK, for the most part. Maybe 99/AQ.

CO pusher is 2p2er Schaefer. He hasn't played with UTG raiser from what I've seen. If he's been obvserving the other tables as it got close to the FT, he might have observed the nittiness. I've been watching everyone since the last 3 tables, and Schaefer's been playing solid, pretty standard himself. He definetely has a very good hand here, whetehr or not he knows UTG is about as tight as an UTG raiser will get.

My image to UTG raiser is probably pretty tight as well. One hand w/ 12 left, I raised the button, and he 3-bet the SB; I was 2nd in chips and he was chip leader. I folded.

So, eh, call or not?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t8000 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

MP2 (t167191)
MP3 (t105521)
<font color="#C00000">CO (t151736)</font>
Hero (t114804)
SB (t213984)
BB (t82216)
<font color="#C00000">UTG (t159947)</font>
UTG+1 (t84712)
MP1 (t615889)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t20000</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to t151336</font>, Hero is on the button and?

[timex]

Snap folds?

[registrar]

I'm folding there.

[nath]

[ QUOTE ]
Snap folds?

[/ QUOTE ]
ugh maybe but tight or not everyone involved has &lt; 20BB, it does not take a major hand to push here, and I wouldn't be surprised if Schaefer had AQ or 88

[timex]

Assuming schaefer's shove is +EV, this is a very very easy fold. If schaefer is making -EV shoves, then this could be a call.

[brad3]

With 14bbs I might call and puke. Another option would be to flip a coin. If I really had a bad feeling about it, I would muck it. Both raisers have fairly small ranges and you are either racing or destroyed vs CO OR, if UTG comes along for the ride you are certainly destroyed. Chipstacks are relatively the same all around the table except MP1 so I'm not sure how that affected your decision.

[Schaefer]

This spot felt really weird to me in the CO. I hadn't seen him nitting it up at the previous table and he'd opened then folded to resistance on the two previous hands. Here are the last 3 hands of my tournament:

1) Big Blind is t8000

CO (t132391)
Button (t70721)
Brando (t156536)
BB (t127604)
UTG (t222784)
UTG+1 (t83016)
MP1 (t200747)
MP2 (t85512)
MP3 (t616689)

Preflop: Brando is SB with 6c, 6h.
2 folds, MP1 raises to t20400, 2 folds, CO raises to t56400, 3 folds, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: t79600

------------------------------------------------------------

2)

MP3 (t167591)
CO (t70321)
Brando (t152136)
SB (t119204)
BB (t222384)
UTG (t82616)
UTG+1 (t180347)
MP1 (t85112)
MP2 (t616289)

Preflop: Brando is Button with Ac, Qc.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t20000, 3 folds, CO calls t20000, 3 folds.

Flop: (t43200) 6s, Qh, Tc (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, CO bets t49921 (All-In), UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: t93121

-----------------------------------------------------------------

3)

MP2 (t167191)
MP3 (t105521)
Brando (t151736)
Button (t114804)
SB (t213984)
BB (t82216)
UTG (t159947)
UTG+1 (t84712)
MP1 (t615889)

Preflop: Brando is CO with Ah, Qh.
UTG raises to t20000, 4 folds, Brando raises to t151336, 3 folds, UTG calls t131336.

Flop: (t305472) 5c, 4s, Kc (2 players)

Turn: (t305472) 8s (2 players)

River: (t305472) 6s (2 players)

Final Pot: t305472

Hand 2 and Hand 3 feel like gross spots to me. I was probably going to shove in hand 2 but then the shorty calls off almost a third of his stack and it freaked me out. After the guy opened for the 3rd straight time I felt like (a) he was a stubborn opener and (b) he might make a "screw you guys" call with AJ or AT. I usually just fold AQ here but I didn't have the nit read that you did. I was pretty sick about the shove afterward but I do think it's close. Maybe it's horrible. Maybe I should have shoved in hand 2. I'm just feeling around in the dark right now and it's getting really frustrating. I don't care about getting bad beat and whatnot but when I donk off my chips or don't even know if I donked off my chips or not it feels like crap. I'll figure it out soon. I think.

[timex]

In general, if someone is agressive, they are just cardracking, especially if they are a ranked pocket fiver. I end up shoving in lots of spots like this, but I really think that I, and many other 2+2ers need to learn that non-2p2ers aren't at all agressive.

[billyjex]

Bad spot to be in Schaefer.

The UTG raiser hadn't been super nitty, stats wise, but everytime he showed his hand over, it was a big one. He did open up when we got 6 handed and less (I think he finished 5th.)

I ended up folding. It's too difficult to figure out the math in a spot like this at the table, and given they both had fairly tight ranges, I gave it up. UTG raiser had QQ.

[ActionJeff]

Call and it isn't anywhere near as close as the responses so far would lead you to believe... fold here is a pretty significant error