50 NL: Test Your Handreading Skills - Page 5

ButItWasSuited · #41 05-03-2007, 03:58 PM

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The strongest play you've made was the 3-bet preflop. Floating the flop and betting the turn when checked to aren't necessarily strong plays.

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Ok, lets back up then. Why do you think he leads for 120 bb's?
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JJ at 50NL= call cmon, if he made his boat why didnt he push turn while you were showing all this strength?

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I think you are on to something here. Perhaps he doesn't have a boat on the turn?

thac · #42 05-03-2007, 04:13 PM

I think villain's range preflop is pretty wide (LDO) and he likes to mix it up with you so I would say any pair, any suited ace, any ace with broadway kicker, and probably Kxs down to K9.

He leads into you on the flop (aggression factors would help), so he hit some part of that - we've narrowed his range to 77, JJ, AA (very rarely indeed), A2s+, ATo+, and K9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]+.

When he checks the turn, he's either gonna raise or call, but I don't think he folds here ever. I think that since he just called, we can rule out AA and A2s+ (to like A9s), and still keep the rest of his range intact, although I would normally raise here with any ace that hasn't boated up yet because you can be re-popping me light with KQ[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or something that still has outs to hit, but villain likes to slowplay, so blah. So basically, if villain were me, his range here is 77, JJ, A7s, AJs and AJo (he has K9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]+ as well) but like I said, that's just me.

When he shoves the river like that, he is hoping and praying you hit your flush with your KQ[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or an ace that didn't boat up. I think I've narrowed his range here down to 77, JJ, AJs, AJo and AK (if he slowplayed it on the turn, like he has the tendency to do). K9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]+ drops out of his range since the K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] comes.

I think I put him on 77 here the most, followed by AJ (suited or not), then JJ, then AK (bluffs are somewhere in there, probably after JJ, it'd be nice to know a bit about his bluffing frequency at this point). I also know that 38/24 semi-tards like to bluff scare cards so I think this may be a call, especially if he is the type to slowplay his trip aces that didn't boat up (A2s+ and ATo+).

JJ plays better than AQ here, we're still losing to AJ (although it's far less likely since it'd be case J) and AK, but now we beat 77 and the random clubs that the 38/24 semi-tards call reraises with (QJ[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]).

I think I call with JJ, and it's borderline with AQ.

Dunkman · #43 05-03-2007, 04:14 PM

I also agree that you need to be raising the flop with JJ. Why? Because if he doesn't have an A then the hand is over anyway. If he does you need to build a pot so that 1) you can get it AI eventually and 2) a scare card may come on the turn that kills your action. If you don't understand why this flop is a raise with JJ then you probably don't need to be doing one of these indulgent threads where you educate us about how to play.

We Major · #44 05-03-2007, 04:15 PM

Looks a lot like AK or KK to me with a flush possible (QJs, JTs), but less likely. The river card obviously helps him and he thinks he has the best hand and he's value shoving.
If he doesn't have the K, it's too risky to shove that much into someone who could have AK even if you have a flush. You'll fold out AQ, AJ and anything that's not a boat (which you are very likely to have). Very few people at this level can make that type of a play with air.

He goes from calling down all the way to shoving the river on what would be a scare card if he held AQ or even AJ. I'm also assuming JJ would have raised the flop or the turn on that board.

PJo336 · #45 05-03-2007, 04:20 PM

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JJ at 50NL= call cmon, if he made his boat why didnt he push turn while you were showing all this strength?

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I think you are on to something here. Perhaps he doesn't have a boat on the turn?

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this could be correct, and in fact take out AJ slightly of the question...AK explains preflop passively, as well as the flop bet. However, why would he check the turn with TRIPS even with that board. Turn brings up 2 flush draws (i belive im not lookin at it right now) and gives him the "nut" trips without a boat. I rule out AK IMO aswell, it again makes it look like a total donk move falling into a flush, or a 77/JJ combo clever enough to try a trap.
However, you mentioned he slowplayed alot. SO why lead OOP on the flop flopping a set? merry-go-round of contradictions here, and Id prob have to play him, but I dont get the lead with a set. You let him cbet to at least ensure some flop profit. AQ maybe donking the river?

PJo336 · #46 05-03-2007, 04:23 PM

However, based on the fact its party poker, i vote 10 10

Dunkman · #47 05-03-2007, 04:25 PM

I actually think villain has KK, and have the whole time. The PF is kinda weird, but he bets the flop hoping you don't have an A, c/c the turn because the second A makes him think you maybe don't have one, then fills up on the river and shoves.

edit: I guess the turn c/c could be a slowplay with some sort of A or FH...idk...the point is I'm not calling this river bet (with AQ I mean.)

PJo336 · #48 05-03-2007, 04:26 PM

Define his slow playing? Flop or turn slow play on this hand?

We Major · #49 05-03-2007, 04:30 PM

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Ok, now for the twist: You have JJ.

Call or fold?

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I call w/ JJ but I probably would have been all in already on the turn hoping to only be behind to AA or AJ, both of which are very unlikely (2 combos of AJ, and 1 combo of AA).

With JJ, getting the odds you're getting I'd still fold (although it's a close call and you can't be faulted for calling). AK, AA, KK make up the majority of his range...with a flush being possible, but less likely. His range is AA, AK, AJ and KK - you're losing to 11 of these hands. He could also possibly have QJ, JT, 78s, AQ, or an unlikely AT. Assuming you don't hold the Jc then there's about 16 combos...discount and make it 8 combos. You're getting beating 8 and losing to 11 combos or 1.375:1 which isn't quite good enough for a call getting 1.25:1. If you add in air to his range, it makes the call close...but I'd still lean towards a fold.

PJo336 · #50 05-03-2007, 04:30 PM

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I actually think villain has KK, and have the whole time. The PF is kinda weird, but he bets the flop hoping you don't have an A, c/c the turn because the second A makes him think you maybe don't have one, then fills up on the river and shoves.

edit: I guess the turn c/c could be a slowplay with some sort of A or FH...idk...the point is I'm not calling this river bet.

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I somewhat agree with this point as well. And as the real hand, I dont think Im ever calling, what do we beat?