i got berated for this play.... (400NL) - Page 2

Praetor · #11 05-03-2007, 01:23 PM

lol

whaahhahahah · #12 05-03-2007, 01:36 PM

unless, he raises utg something like 3% of the time, i don't understand how this is not being tricky for the sake of being tricky.

Riina · #13 05-03-2007, 01:49 PM

Okay, i know i'm posting hands on this forum that i think i played bad or doubtful, hence i expect to be criticised everytime i post a hand, but this is too much really. Never ever will i feel as bad about this hand as most people here make it out to be IF people just shout these oneliners like 'played bad on every street', 'who checking the turn here jeez', 'why even call for value if you play like that'. Be substantial, christ...

The reasoning for the way i played like i did.

I pegged villain as a very solid player. He wasn't mixing it up once i sat with him, and imo he was right since he didn't need to anyway given the circumstances. In UTGposition i think his range is pretty measurable. I figured AJo+, ATs+, 66+, QJs, KJs, KQ.

The flop is QJ6r.

Normally i WILL raise this flop, but i don't mind slowcalling here once in a while, and in this instance i was lured into this option for the hand we played earlier on. I figured (yes figure, of course i dont know for sure) that the way we played the hand earlier on would give me a finer blueprint on the turn of how much value i could extract from his hand.

In the other hand i had just called with toppair on the flop, checked through on the turn where he had kings and it led me to believe that he would adjust in a way that he would play much much more straightforward on the turn in this hand to extract the most value against me. So to sum up: it means for me that if he has a good hand, im gonna get the money in anyways(ahead or behind) , but i get a much better perspective on the hands he's way behind with and can try to figure if theres a way to extract from those as well. Thus i just called.

The turn: 7d

Then the turn comes and he checks. As i concluded from the reasoning above, i figured there was no way i was up against AQ (i think even KQ), QJs, AA-JJ nor 77, as im sure he would've bet those this time. There are no flushdraws either fwiw. I figured there was a small chance i was up against 88-TT, but more possibly either KJs, AJ or AK (small chance of ATs). Like i said in an earlier post i think he perceived me as nitty, hence i would not figure him to call me down with either KJs, AJ if i bet the turn. I do think there is a bigger chance he will call a riverbet with those. Plus, if i give those hands a freecard i only have to worry about the T, but even if it hits it probably wont cost me that much as he has to valuebet oop and i have only showed weakness thus far so he probably wont make it too expensive. Therefor i checked,

The river: Ad

The river comes the ace. The card i really really wanted(next to the jack). However, im positive he won't call too big a raise with AK, and i think he could even lay down AJ to too big a raise (like i said i was playing pretty nitty). I do think i could have raised a bit more, and im sorry to myself for the fact that i didn't. But not even that much more is my take.

I gotta run, posted this in a bit of a haste, so dont bash me on semantics as im not english anyway, fill in the subtle blanks in my reasoning for yourself. And now i don't think everybody (if anyone) will make a 180 and say i played it pretty great, but please make your criticism substantial so i can actually learn something...sorry for the angry tone overall by the way, but some of the responsed pissed me off a bit

dd323 · #14 05-03-2007, 02:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]

In the other hand i had just called with toppair on the flop, checked through on the turn where he had kings and it led me to believe that he would adjust in a way that he would play much much more straightforward on the turn in this hand to extract the most value against me. So to sum up: it means for me that if he has a good hand, im gonna get the money in anyways(ahead or behind) , but i get a much better perspective on the hands he's way behind with and can try to figure if theres a way to extract from those as well. Thus i just called.

[/ QUOTE ]

So let me understand this, you are playing against an unimaginative, overly solid player who you saw check an overpair before on the turn, and you remove that from his reange when he checks again?

Also, that Ace is your money card (not for villians real hand), if you are checking the turn behind its to try to raise the river all in.

This is really absic and should be in SSNL, but its an ods thing, what are the odds of him calling your bet with a worse hand given your bet size. A minraise is horrible at maximizing your value, even if it almost always gets called.

DevinLake · #15 05-03-2007, 02:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So to sum up: it means for me that if he has a good hand, im gonna get the money in anyways(ahead or behind)

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The river comes the ace. The card i really really wanted(next to the jack). However, im positive he won't call too big a raise with AK, and i think he could even lay down AJ to too big a raise (like i said i was playing pretty nitty).

[/ QUOTE ]

Coming from the perspective of a guy that gets min raised like this a lot on the river (or any street for that matter). It really is a relief when players do this. It makes difficult decisions much easier because the price is so good and you have to be good so little to make calling profitable.

You want to make your opponents make difficult decisioins. Force them to make mistakes. Biggest of all, let them decide what hands they can call with. If he can call your min raise on this board, it is very likely he'll call a much bigger bet.

frozzor · #16 05-03-2007, 02:30 PM

dude u suck
learn how to get value lol

Matt G · #17 05-03-2007, 02:34 PM

He should thank you for saving him all that money.

lippy · #18 05-03-2007, 04:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em (NL$400) (6 handed) link

BB ($982.20)
UTG ($414.60)
CO ($185.22)
Hero ($452.60)
SB ($459.00)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises to $14.00, 1 folds, Hero calls $14.00, 2 folds.

Flop: ($34.00) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets $21.00, Hero raises to $60.00, UTG calls $39.00

Turn: ($148.00) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, hero bet $90.00, UTG calls $90.00.

River: ($328) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets $200, Hero raises all-in, UTG calls all-in.

Final Pot: $828.00.
Results in white below:
Hero has 6d 6s (of a kind, Sixes.)
UTG has Jd As (pairs, Aces and Jacks.)
Hero wins $828.00.


[/ QUOTE ]

Even if he fold the turn, you still only change the end result by $60. If he makes one bad call...

Melchiades · #19 05-03-2007, 04:52 PM

This hand is like the poster child for lost value.

Boquense · #20 05-03-2007, 05:33 PM

Riina, I'll be completely honest with you. This is how FISH play sets.

Do yourself a favor and never slowplay again for the rest of your life (or at least until you're regularly playing against opponents that you really need to deceive).

Here's how to play a set vs a non maniac:

1. Try to take his stack on the flop.

2. If no 1. doesn't work, and board isn't disgusting, try and take his stack on the turn.

3. If nos 1 & 2 both fail, and board isn't so terrible that the only hands that will call you surely beat you, try and take his stack on the river.

Most of these responses are insulting because:

A. We're [censored].
B. Your play in this hand really IS that bad.