Destructive gambler asks "How do I quit poker?"

[luckyjimm]

My problem is I just don't seem to be able to reach the point where I've had enough of gambling forever, admit that I'm powerless over it, and can turn myself over to GA. I still get excited at the thought of sitting down at a poker table with a full buy-in and seeing how much I can win, even though I always end up losing it. I get paid tomorrow; I'm excited at the thought of playing, even though every week for the last however many weeks, all that's happened is I've doubled, tripled, quadrupled my money, kept on playing till I was bust, then been broke for another week. I have had enough bad things happen to me through gambling - having to move back home, where my parents threatened to disown me and kick me out - yet still it excites me, I want to do it, even though it's stopping me having any kind of life or being able to do any of the genuine real things I love. My self-worth is too low to do anything but gamble.

I had a PM from someone who wondered if I might have borderline personality disorder, so I looked into this a bit. Some parts hold true: I have a very fragile sense of self, hyper-sensitive to criticism, very impulsive, destructive; I tend to obsess over one or two people at any one time and imagine my happiness is dependent on being with them; I have no real sense of how I appear to others. I have big mood swings, but these are usually based around whether I'm on an addictive binge, or dealing with the aftermath. So playing poker for $1000 I'll be very hyper; the next moment when I've lost it I'll be very low. That's the same for everyone, surely, but I push it to extremes by playing for all the money I have. I don't seem able to set and fulfill long-term goals; I live day by day.

One characteristic of BPD is getting very angry and aggressive, and I'm not like that. I'm pretty calm and personable. But, still, maybe I should look at getting diagnosed to see if that's it.

[Der He is]

Just like Ralph was saying I'm sick of hearing from you about how weak you are and how you keep messing up, so here's some advice from a non-meathead who's not gonna tell a lazy son of a gun to do 100 pushups straight....
Seems like the thing that is giving you the most problems is lack of a woman in your life and you have no confidence to do anything about it. Join an online dating service. You can look at the numbers: there are thousands of (prolly more) people just like you who cant meet people..Create an online account use your real pictures (even if you aren;t confident about em) and see what happens. It shouldnt be too hard for you to spit game on a CPU and rejection shouldnt bother you there. I have heard plenty of people who have had success with this. Plus it will take up time from gambling. You can start exchanging notes and feel better abt yourself.
Finally Im not trying to make fun of living healthy. I just know people like you and I doubt you will get hardcore into working out. But you say u like swimming try to swim 2x a week. If nothing else for 15minute walks every day-specially if you feel compulsion to gamble. Finally in terms of eating---tell yourself you will never eat fast food again. It it s%&t food and makes you feel depressed, stop sodas as well... You dont cook and you need to eat fast so be like Jerry and eat Subway or something...
Thats my 2 cents anyways. Wish you all the luck man

[luckyjimm]

Here's what happened in the last couple of days. I didn't eat anything from 1pm Wednesday to 7pm Thursday as I had zero money and zero food in the house, as usual. I had 20p, and stole 2p from my boss's room at work so I could buy a pack of reduced priced spaghetti from the Co-Op which I ate on Thursday night with salt, fried garlic and ketchup (since I was out of olive oil and butter). I had a call from a friend inviting me to a gallery show then a pub, but I couldn't go because I didn't have any money. Ironically he's the one who introduced me to poker yet has become mad at me never having money to do stuff, so I had to make my excuses.

For the work I'm doing at the moment I get paid weekly. The money goes into my account soon after midnight on a Thursday. After a while jacking off to some porno films I fell asleep and woke up at 12.30am with the realisation I now had money in my bank account. That meant I had to play. I tried going to sleep but I just couldn't. It's like being possessed.

I'm living with a middle-aged couple who know a couple of years ago I had a big gambling problem, and they are suspicious. I considered loading up Party on one of their computers which is in the room next to mine. But I knew that if they heard me (they sleep just upstairs) or saw anything had been moved in the room, I'd be dead. They'd know what I was doing and they'd tell my parents (who'd disown me) and I'd be homeless / life would be over.

So instead I get dressed and creep downstairs. As usual this sets off the burglar alarm which they put on every night, so I have to reset it before I walk out the door. The noise of this always wakes them up. I tell myself hopefully they'll think I just went down to get something, then went back to bed - otherwise why would I be going out at 1.30am? The house is in a residential area and there's no reason I'd be going out that late. Except - unbenownst to them - there's a poker club a five minute drive away.

So I get a cab from the minicab place round the corner - I know the guys there, most of them are degenerate gamblers too. I withdraw £300 cash so I have my rent, food, travel etc covered for the next week. I've been made more than usual so that still leaves me £200 to put online. I play PLO on the computers in the club from 2am to 7am. The most I go up to is $550; then I fall back down to $100 after one beat and one misplayed hand. I get back up to $400, then more gross outdraws see me back down to $100. The penultimate hand I play I get back to $190; then with the final misplayed hand I fall down to $60 and leave. (Still, I have the possibility of spinning back up this weekend).

I'm back in the house for 7.05am and I hope the people upstairs will think the alarm has gone off becuase I've gone down for my breakfast, not that I've just come back in. I lie down for an hour but can't sleep due to endless cups of tea and cigarettes (I bought a pack before I went to the club, the first one in a month - I'd given up). I feel feverish. The middle aged guy gets up early and uses the exercise bike in the room where the computer is from 7,45 every day; I feel very paranoid as I set about showering, shaving, putting myself into a suit, seeing him and wondering if he realises I went out.

Now I'm at work where I've spent the day on zero sleep except for a little last evening. I imagine I'm the only one in this office who spent all night in a poker club. The problem is I kind of enjoy these bouts of craziness - so long as the financial damage isn't too great, so long as I can get away with it, don't get found out. But week by week, month by month, the amount I lose is huge.

Yes, I agree, I should force myself to exercise, to swim two-three times a week at least, and to try to meet girls in some way. Even if I became addicted to hookers that would be more fun than poker - somewhere else to go to in a cab at 1am every Thursday night...

[Geir74]

I only play poker because I am a winning player. I find the game boring and depressing; I hate loosing more than I enjoy winning. So I do not understand why gambling and loosing is something you find enjoyable.
But I do understand drug and alcohol addiction. It's destructive to drink or take drugs every day, but it feels good. I guess compulsive gamblers get a similar joy out of their own destruction.

I have read some of your posts, and I know that you are intelligent. Why not use that intelligence to become a winning player?
Online poker is a beatable game. It's not that hard to beat $1/$2 NL.
I belive that it's easier for you to turn your addiction into something positive in your life, than to leave it.

But then again, I might be totally off ...

[Walkingman]

I once read that anyone who is in a repetetive, destructive pattern that causes unhappiness is doomed to repeat it until he learns the obvious lesson from it.

[luckyjimm]

I had a couple of good sessions: Saturday daytime put $750 into Party, played $1/$2 and cashed out $1200. I quit because I don't like playing in the day, I had a headache, and I wanted to bank a win. Then Saturday night I went to another poker club which has a deal with Full Tilt, used their computers, put $50 in and cashed out $300 from playing $0.25/$0.50 and $0.50/$1. I took a break midway through to watch the boxing. I played well and I remembered that when I'm in control, I can be a good Omaha player. I don't have to be a loser. So, pleased to have had these sessions. Winning is more fun than losing! I think I need to go spend some money now, too, so I can see it has value outside the game.

[luckyjimm]

Sunday evening: $310 deposited, $2100 cashed out. I now have £1000 in used bank notes in my pocket. Hurrah! I was playing from $0.25/$0.50 to $1/$2 on Full Tilt. I won a $1100 pot where I did get lucky, a $560 pot where I had 56, flop was 234 and my opponent stacked off with A5, and lots of smaller ones. I was hitting a lot, my opponents were terrible, and I was in control. I made lots of good folds; I didn't do any silly bluffs; I didn't get my money in too often on coinflips; I didn't tilt at all. I stuck to small tables, didn't move up. If someone trap check-raised me, rather than thinking "Oh well, I'm beat again" and calling anyway, I'd fold and live to fight another battle. I had a few beats - like with the nut straight and nut flush draw on the turn, getting it in against a fish with a set and he housed on the river, or flopping middle set, turning nut straight, rivering the house, only to find my opponent had made runner runner quad threes! But I didn't let it affect me, didn't bust since I wasn't playing for all my money, and won it back and more.

It really helped that I was playing in a poker club which has a deal with Full Tilt so I can transfer money to their account and they give me cash. So I could take money out all the time.

I felt like Ronnie O'Sullivan when he has his game, opposed to the times when he doesn't - I remembered "Hang on, I can do this! I don't have to lose, I can win!"

[luckyjimm]

With that grand I spent £700 on a Sony Vaio laptop and paid my brother £235 I have owed him for a long time.

Playing on Monday I put in $410 which I got up to $910 in less than an hour, so temporarily £250 up. Cashed out $710 then tilted off the $200 with a stupid bluff. I wasn't playing well & had lost my mojo. I was making dumb bluffs, calling all the time, calling when I knew I was beaten, etc. I put £$200 back in, but got a taxi home so I couldn't deposit any more. I lost that money getting it all-in with AJ on a KQT rainbow flop, idiot has QQ and sucks out on the river. Using a card I put $50 in and lost it on a dumb bluff when someone trap-checked. So once I factor in the taxis to and from the club, a break-even session.

Tuesday night I was waiting for money I'd cashed out of Party to hit my account but it didn't go in till 3am. Unfortunately when it did I was still awake but in no state to play - too tired. I put $400 into Full Til, and spunked it in no time. Put $550 into Party, won a bit and got up to $730 at which point I was $220 down on the night. Then I don't know what happened, just very tired, strung out from caffeine and cigarettes and it being 4am - anyway, I lost the lot. Put in another $200, bust out on a three-way flop all-in: middle set, top set, versus my nut flush draw, gutshot and backdoor flush draw. I was 35% to win it, so I guess I was getting the odds; it was an $800 pot... anyway it didn't go my way - funny how when you're tilting none of your draws hit either, nothing goes right. I realised the deposits to Party weren't showing up on my bank account so I rushed to the cashpoint and got £280 out.
I didn't get to bed till 6am. Waking at 8am I decided to skip work. I phoned the agency and claimed I had food poisoning. I slept till midday then went down the poker club with the cash I'd taken out of the bank. I deposited £200 and played from 1pm to 12pm. I fell from $390 to $100 fairly quickly with some bad calls, once when my set didn't house up and he obviously had a straight, once with a middling flush when I thought the preflop raiser betting into me had flopped a set of aces and my low flush was good; it wasn't. Then I started playing well and ground my way back up to $450. I withdrew $350 so at least I would have money in my pocket. Then I lost the $100 when all the money went in when I had the nut straight and the idiot had a set and he of course housed on the river. I wasn't tilting, but I just wasn't getting any cards at all, and my opponents were very tight. I would wait hours to hit a flop enormously, and when I did it would just mean I'd get outdrawn; it would just be an opportunity for me to get sucked out on and lose more money.

I put $100 back in and lost that with a bad bluff. I put another $100 in, lost that to set over set. I put $100 back in, lost that in a three-way all-in when I flopped a set of nines in a raised pot on a 2 9 5 flop and the idiot made his flush. Oh, there was another three-way all-in I lost where I had the mother of all wraps which hit on the turn and it housed on the river. So I walked out of there down £175-£200ish with just a tenner in my pocket, feeling like death and really sick of being so addicted to poker.

I seem to have set myself up for a gambler's life. I have an undemanding and unrewarding job, which gives me no satisfaction whatsoever and doesn't connect with my sense of identity or enhance my self-worth. But it is overpaid and I have very mininal outlays - £90 a week rent, no bills, £25 tube fees and that's about it, so the rest is spunking money. I don't seem to have any interests beyond watching films and occasionally reading. My social life isn't what it was, although I do have a lot of good friends I could see more of.

Oddly the $750 I deposited to Party Poker still hasn't been taken out of my bank account. I got some cheques today which I've paid in and, since my bank lets me withdraw on uncleared cheques, I dearly hope this lunchtime I will be able to withdraw the £160 or so before the Party money goes out which will mean I have a massive unauthorised overdraft and my wages will get swallowed up, if I'm unlucky giving me nothing to live on. And since this week one day was a bank holiday and I threw a sickie yesterday, the pay cheque after next will be much reduced. So times are tight! I at least should do more to protect myself if I'm going to gamble - make sure I've got lots of food in the house, make sure the rent money's put to one side, etc.

I really do feel sick of poker but lack the imagination to see what else I could do that would give me the same excitement - even the horror of losing brings drama to an otherwise dull life.

[TrainHardDieHard]

It sounds like you could easily be a winning player if you avoided tilt and had better bankroll management. I dont want to encourage you to play, but nothing anyone else has said has sinked in because you're still gambling. I agree with Geir74 in that the online games are very beatable and that you have the intelligence to become a winning player.

A new book just came out called "The Poker Mindset: Essential Attitudes for Poker Success" by Ian Tayler and Matthew Hilger. This book is great for the psychological aspect of the game. If you dont have the strength to quit poker, make this book your bible and follow every single word of it. The only thing that matters in poker is making the correct decision because you will inevitably be a long-term winner. Stop playing for the short-term adrenaline quintuple your bankroll + lose it all.

Other people are telling you to stop gambling because it's getting you depressed - this is true - you are risking large sums of money (100% of your roll) only to lose it all. If i was you, I would find the discipline to ONLY play in limits where i have 35-40x the buy in for PLO AND NEVER MOVE UP IN LIMITS UNTIL I HAVE 35-40x buy in. Also, make it a habit to contribute no more than 20% of your job salary to a poker site per week. If you have the inner-strength to follow this routine, you will turn out a profit, be a winner, and always have extra NON-POKER cash in your pockets from your job. I also strongly recommend the book i mentioned above.

[matt85]

TBH you dont seem like you really want to quit as the realisation of a big score is always seemingly around the corner.

You must talk to your family about this. Its nothing to be ashamed of; you need some help.

This is no way to live and you must realise this

Good luck.