My friend got the crap beat out of him by a cop (true story, tl:dr)

[bkholdem]

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I've never understood the whole "he said something mean to me, I should kick his ass" mentality.

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DAS of anger management and impulse control. People who do this also likely have poor conflict resolution skills in general.

[guids]

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I've never understood the whole "he said something mean to me, I should kick his ass" mentality.

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I never understood the opposite, if you are a big enough tough guy to provoke someone you dont know, why would expect to not get your ass kicked? From my perspective, someone makes fun of me, there is going to be little consequences for me for humiliating this guy, so why not? Plus, sometimes a good fight gets the blood pumping.

[El Diablo]

quids,

Here are the details of that specific situation.

Cops were called to a party at a hotel due to reports of some bottles being thrown out a window.

Cops arrived and some sober, intelligent, and articulate individuals discussed with them the fact that no bottles had been thrown from this room. The cops then made some comments about various other possible infractions. At this point, drunk friend makes some comment like "give me a [censored] break, no bottles were thrown from here, why don't you guys get the [censored] out." They immediately arrested him, I don't recall what reason they gave. At this point, another friend says "hold on, guys, that is totally unnecessary and unreasonable. you guys can't take him in for that." At which point they cuff friend number two as well. I witnessed all of this.

The following story was told to me the next morning by friend 2 and to the best of his recollection, friend 1 confirmed it. I am confident it is basically 100% accurate. In the car to the police station, friend 2 is quiet. Drunk friend 1, however, is making comments about how ridiculous it is and how these officers suck. At one point they stop and he asks if they are stopping so they can go get some doughnuts. The driver turns around and says "look, buddy, you can keep yapping all night, I don't care. Hell, I'm on overtime pay now." To which drunk friend responds "Oh wow, awesome, what's that like $12 an hour?" Cop did not react well to that remark, turns to friend 2 and says "You better get your buddy to shut the [censored] up because if he makes one more remark we're dropping you off at the station and then beating the [censored] out of him."

[guids]

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quids,

Here are the details of that specific situation.

Cops were called to a party at a hotel due to reports of some bottles being thrown out a window.

Cops arrived and some sober, intelligent, and articulate individuals discussed with them the fact that no bottles had been thrown from this room. The cops then made some comments about various other possible infractions. At this point, drunk friend makes some comment like "give me a [censored] break, no bottles were thrown from here, why don't you guys get the [censored] out." They immediately arrested him, I don't recall what reason they gave. At this point, another friend says "hold on, guys, that is totally unnecessary and unreasonable. you guys can't take him in for that." At which point they cuff friend number two as well. I witnessed all of this.

The following story was told to me the next morning by friend 2 and to the best of his recollection, friend 1 confirmed it. I am confident it is basically 100% accurate. In the car to the police station, friend 2 is quiet. Drunk friend 1, however, is making comments about how ridiculous it is and how these officers suck. At one point they stop and he asks if they are stopping so they can go get some doughnuts. The driver turns around and says "look, buddy, you can keep yapping all night, I don't care. Hell, I'm on overtime pay now." To which drunk friend responds "Oh wow, awesome, what's that like $12 an hour?" Cop did not react well to that remark, turns to friend 2 and says "You better get your buddy to shut the [censored] up because if he makes one more remark we're dropping you off at the station and then beating the [censored] out of him."

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k, little different with all the details just like everything else. I have a friend like yours too, been in a few situations like that. Hes got a couple engineering degrees from purdue, smart as [censored], too smart for his own good sometimes. Sometimes I think he deserves a quick smack to the mouth when he gets smart with the cops, but usually the cops around here arent as big of douche bags as yours were.

[zac7179]

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All,

As someone said earlier it's the word of a drunk who beats down street signs vs. a cop. OPs friend isn't getting any money and is probably going to jail. If the cop says the force was necessary to subdue a violent drunk its the end of the story. Cops aren't allowed to beat people down, but they are allowed to win fights they don't start.

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It is certainly not as open and shut as you make it out to be. Was the cop drinking? Was he intoxicated? Did he identify himself as a police officer right off the bat and show his badge? (no one should trust some random person giving them orders in the middle of the night after the bars close is a cop)


-He doesn't have to show his badge. All he has to do is say I am a cop and that is the end of it. If u say that and are not a cop u go to jail.

Did he use poor judgement in giving an order to a citizen who was likely under the influence (as he was off duty and without backup) and then use worse judgement grabbing the guy?

-He tried to be a nice guy and told him to go back and fix the sign, it the moron had that would of been the end of it. The guy is off duty he doesn't want the hassle of having to drag someone in when he is even getting paid. That takes up his off time.


If he is in fact a 'trained kickboxer' does he do this sort of thing to instigate fights and then use the fact that he also HAPPENS to be a police officer as a defense/excuse?

-Now I do not know the guy so I have no idea how he goes about things but no cop picks fights. If u are on the job long enough they come to u. U don't have to go looking for them.

Did he have a cell phone and did he call prior to physically engaging the drunk or after?

-He doesn't have to call anyone the whole point was the guy should of went back and picked the sign up how did he know the op's friend was going to do something stupid.

Are his actions (giving orders to drunks at 2am when in plain clothes and off duty that are not consistent with the lawful acts of a citizen) consistent with his training?

-Yes

Has he had complaints of excessive force against him before?

-Who knows but we do know that the OP's friend had prior arrests. So tit for tat.

Are the injuries sustained by the vandal consistent with reasonable force or excessive force?

-Pretty much yes.


That's just off the top of my head and I am not even a lawyer.

You aren't a lawyer so before u start trying to preach the law and police tatics why not learn something about them.

[guids]

Im pretty sure you have to prove you are a police officer in that situation with a badge or something. can you cite something if Im wrong?

[bkholdem]

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Im pretty sure you have to prove you are a police officer in that situation with a badge or something. can you cite something if Im wrong?

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It is insane to just trust some random person telling you want to do is a cop. Any self respecting non looking for trouble cop is going to show his bagde in these circumstances. There have been situations where people tell others they are cops and then take them to secluded locations and kill them or rape them.

Lots of things are against the law, that does not mean that it is advisible to just trust in the fact that the person could theoretically get punnished for doing what they are doing if a cop happened to be standing right next to them watching.

If I'm walking down the street at 2am and says they are a cop and do not flash their badge....that is crazy! All cops know that all the bad people are out at 2am. A cop trying to do good will do everything they can to make sure the situation is safe. People frequently use ruses to get others in dangerous situations, one being falsely identifying oneself as a police officer. In this case it could easily be some random guy looking to start a fight.

If a cop cares about public safety, when identifying themselves as a cop at 2am in an urban area when off duty and in plain clothes they will show their bagde. Any jury can be made to understand that.

If your daughter was walking down the street at 2am and someone gave her a command and then said they are a cop but do not show a badge, what do you recommend she do? I recommend she start yelling "Help, Rape!" and run to other people ASAP if the guy moves in her direction.

[pergesu]

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I never understood the opposite, if you are a big enough tough guy to provoke someone you dont know, why would expect to not get your ass kicked?

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Well, it's pretty simple for me. Whenever I've witnessed confrontations where one dude said something bad to another dude, the second dude gets upset because he got "disrespected." If it's a matter of respect, well, I don't actually want that much respect from a random dude who's dumb and mean enough to talk [censored] to me. He's not the kind of person I want to be around, so I don't desire his respect in any way, which means I can't feel disrespected. I honestly just shrug it off, because the guy is stupid.

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From my perspective, someone makes fun of me, there is going to be little consequences for me for humiliating this guy, so why not?

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Not sure what particular consequences you consider...but I don't necessarily understand why you need consequences to dissuade you. I'd think that not hurting someone would be enough incentive itself.

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Plus, sometimes a good fight gets the blood pumping.

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Well, I suppose we can now form the shocking conclusion that different people are different [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[rjoefish]

I think there's a big difference between acknowledging someone claiming to be a cop and just stop knocking down a sign or putting it back up to listening him tell you to go into the dark alley with him. Why do you need to see a badge before you stop destroying stuff when he tells you to? Does him not proving he's a cop right away mean you should just continue destroying whatever you want? He's not telling you to do anything shady that would put you in a dangerous situation where you would need to see ID. Seems kind of silly to use that argument in this case.


As for the guy arrested in El D's story the cops were huge [censored] at the end, but they might have just been trying to scare the more sober kid into convincing his mouthy friend to quiet down. They might have meant it, but who knows, a lot of cops use the scare tactics a lot. If I had to guess I'd say the origal arrested drunk mouthy guy was probably under arrest for something like obstruction, if they're investigating complaints and he's acting the way it sounds like he is in the post that might fit.

[latefordinner]

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Your friend is a douche, and deserved it, I really hope that this happened in st louis so that your friend wont ever see a dime for getting exactly what he deserved, and when he does try to sue they will make his life a living hell.

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I'm not sure what the St Louis quote is about, but the cops here (in StL) are involved in a couple abuse cases here right now where they might have to make significant payouts.