KQs 4way in the bb .5/1 6max - Page 3

train. · #21 04-28-2007, 06:15 PM

Well the voting thus far is 6-3 in favor of betting over checking. That is what I did and I got sick to my stomach as soon as I did. I feel like I'm floundering around and while this time it worked out I just wasn't sure it was the right thing to do.

I'm pretty sure I would've called 1 raise back to me and folded for 2 but I would have definitely been in fold mode after that if I didn't spike a pair. And I would have probably been in call down mode if I did. I've been way too aggressive in the wrong spots and trying to break the habit.

Miles, I think there is a vast difference in our two hands, mine was 4 limpers calling a raise after already committing to the hand and me getting very little on the flop. Yours was a bunch of coldcallers and you getting a very decent flop. But I understand the idea of checking to aggressives and then hammering them for value.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, MP calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP folds, Button folds, SB folds.

Final Pot: 4.50 BB

No showdown. Hero wins 4.50 BB.

Aaron W. · #22 04-28-2007, 06:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Well the voting thus far is 6-3 in favor of betting over checking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Make it 7-3 in favor of betting over checking. Two overcards and a gutshot against limpers on a T-high board is plenty.

milesdyson · #23 04-28-2007, 06:55 PM

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, MP calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP folds, Button calls, SB folds.

Turn: (5 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

River: (7 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero folds.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, MP calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP raises, Button folds, SB folds.

Turn: (6 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Hero calls.

River: (8 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Hero folds.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, MP calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP calls, Button calls, SB folds.

Turn: (5.5 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Button calls, Hero calls.

River: (8.5 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Button folds, Hero folds.

train. · #24 04-28-2007, 07:03 PM

wow

Are those your hands? Are they real? How old are they?

thanks for the examples.

milesdyson · #25 04-28-2007, 07:04 PM

No they aren't real. I'm just trying to make a point.

Aaron W. · #26 04-28-2007, 08:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, MP calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP folds, Button calls, SB folds.

Turn: (5 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

River: (7 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero folds.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, MP calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP raises, Button folds, SB folds.

Turn: (6 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Hero calls.

River: (8 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Hero folds.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, MP calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP calls, Button calls, SB folds.

Turn: (5.5 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Button calls, Hero calls.

River: (8.5 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Button folds, Hero folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess you're right. 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] usually does hit the turn.

But seriously,

* You hit a pair on the turn 12.8% of the time
* You hit a gutshot 8.5% of the time

For those times that you don't improve

* You're against limpers, which increases the likelihood that they fold their hands, which increases your chances of winning the 4 BB pot in the end.
* In the first situation, Button regularly checks behind with a weak flush draw or some other gutshot, and you got value out of all your bets.
* In the second situation, hitting your pair or gutshot on the turn or river lets you check-raise and get bonus value out of villain.

Highlighting what happens when you miss 3 times does not mean that good things never happen to hero when he bets.

(Against another limper, I'd definitely check, so this is the in-between case and I won't give a drawn-out argument saying that betting is better, because it's not totally obvious that it is. I'm just falling on that side of the fence enough to make a counter-point.)