short low content post

[chezlaw]

No idea what if anything serious is wrong but

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The games have gotten much much worse lately.

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I so disagree with this if you mean very recently. I haven't seen so many 45+ pfr (aggressive and passive ones) since I had to leave pokerroom.

Table selection?

chez

[HOWMANY]

If this is at 1/2 I doubt that 30/20 is the best way to play since a lot of your dollars come from fold equity and blind steal/defense and at 1/2 people probably aren't as insane stealing and probably way overdefend so you're taking slightly the worst of it there. The rake also. I would actually guess that the adding of more hands at lower levels just increases swings and probably decreases dollar winnings.

[elffaw]

Ask ILOVEPOKER929 what he thinks about Wpex 1/2 [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[bbbushu]

guruman,

sorry to hear it bro.

i owe you $25, right?

bbbushu

[Leader]

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i pretty much only play super short handed at wpex.

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This is your problem. There are two strategies I see commonly employed to make money in online poker:

A. Play in tough games for rakeback and bonus.

B. Play in soft games and beat up on bad players.

Regardless of which of these you think is more profitable, I suggest you go with B. IMO it takes an almost super human ability to play in games in which you are, without incentives, a losing player and continue to want to play the game and improve. I've seen a lot of good players break themselves trying to make plan A work. I sure it's worked out for some people especially those who are either very good or very lucky, but in my experience plan B is a much better long term strategy.

[Guruman]

thx for the advice all. ironically, I made the OP, then went to pick up a friend and head out to afore mentioned indian casino 1.5 hrs away. I won more live than I have sitting in my entire online roll even after the crushing rake, repeated tips, food and folding the best hand in biggish pots twice - which probably proves Leader's point as much as anything.

I think I'm still going to take a break from online limit holdem for a while until I can get some perspective back. The stars 1/2 game was still orders of magnitude tougher than the live Indian casino 6/12 game. A player there also hipped me to a couple of live underground limit games that happen to occur in my own fair berg, so we'll see about those as well.

So this statement from me:
no online holdem for 20 days. afterwards I'll play some, work on other methods of game selection, and post hands again.

[inferno]

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You are probably NOTgoing to showdown too much.

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try calling down any pair etc see what others hold try to learn abit

[jstill]

hey guru

ur solid and motivated just hop back on the horse Id say, but go ahead and take a short sabaticle if u feel the need. Glad to hear ur live session went well. I will just reiterate a few things people have already said.

Ur BR strategy isn't one I would ever even consider. Stay at a limit for awhile and just grind a lot of hands dude, well within ur BR. As Oink said the 250-300 bb BR management is way too small esp for 6max and HU, thats just insanely crazy to put urself through all that moving up and down and psychologically always being small rolled like that for ur stakes has got to be more stressful by a lot. I get less comfortable when I only have 5-600 bbs for my highest games after cash outs or downswings and usually move down for a bit at that point or play half my tables at limit lower than normal. You should definitely rethink ur system.

Leader points about plan A and B are very valid as well. It takes either a person totally indifferent to the outcomes or incapable of emoting (or a complete masochist) to grind out RB with a loser rate in tough online games. Its not very rewarding (most of the time in the short run it will be just the opposite) and I would imagine this would only be magnified if ur not playing a ton of hands a day. Just to put it in perspective I generally keep a BR for the stakes I mostly play (3/6 pretty much exclusively if there are 4 tables of it going) that is more than twice as large as the BR ud require to play 5/10, and I think thats alot of the reason Ive been able to make plan A work for the few months since the ban now despite originally being a staunch supporter of plan B over plan A (if the ban was lifted today though Id go back to soft games, I just dont think I have many much better options for sites atm and moving money is a hassle). This is the major reason I have been able to make plan A work, but even then being over rolled without so much psychological stress, my zen like indifference does falter at times.

Also as others have said I dont think 30/20+ is optimal in a lot of these over aggro wsex and pstars games ur probably playing in. Im not sure if this description mite fit you, but it seems alot of peoples responses is to try to out aggro the aggro players and I think thats a definite mistake. You dont need to respond to their styles by trying to "out 3bet them" and playing looser or defending or stealing in spots u probably shouldnt be. Tough to speculate though as to what exactly u mite be doing incorrectly since Im not even positive about why I cant do better than break-even at wsex pre rakeback, but I get the impression sometimes u maybe worry about people playing back or being able to exploit "weakness" a bit more than you should be.

[Peter Harris]

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I play an aggressive style pf.

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this means little in a vacuum buddy. All 2p2ers should be aggro PF.


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I only ever play two tables at a time.

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Goot! Keep it up. Are you taking detailed notes too?

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I tend to start tables if there are no 60% vpip ones available. (there usually aren't)

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that's fine, but at many sites you'll be paying through the nose rakewise. Hopefully your edge at HU will negate this, but it's not 100% likely.

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I don't watch tv or porn or anything else while playing.

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Responsible too. Music?

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I screw up the turn a lot

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You need to know what exactly you are doing wrong, why it is wrong and how you will improve. Either send me a batch of hands OR post a lot of turn decisions here. Remember, if you don't know what you're doing wrong, you need help to find it. If you do know what you're doing wrong, you need to change it!

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I play the river better then my opposition for the most part.

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i have little doubt this is true, but if you are frequently stuffing up the street before, this doesn't help as much. Play the turn average and the river best and that's much better!

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I play an aggressive br plan (bankroll always = 250bb)

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that's your bag, and i know you are sensible about moving up and down the ladder. Accept you will seem "fluctuatey" in the sense that you'll be leaping around stakes.

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The games have gotten much much worse lately.

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I can't comment on this, but I guessed they might, hence my move to NL [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].

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Rake at 1/2 is killer.

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Yup. At all SSSH levels it sucks. Get RB, use stars points to cash back, or find a magic solution!

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Tight aggressive loses in loose aggressive games.

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I am not entirely sure about this. In the wildest games, TA-A is the best, i remember in HPFAP it says you could play nothing but AA and KK and expect to show a profit after blinds in the wildest games.

You need to be slightly more passive - let them bet your hand for you! But TA-A is usually the best style. If you can't handle the variance of playing LA-As, you have to find other tables.

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Tight aggressive wins in loose passive games.

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QFT

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There aren't many loose passive games online at Stars or WPEX these days.

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Didn't realise they ever did at WPX [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Keep looking? move sites? I'm sure LP-Ps are still there and fairly plentiful

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I play better HU than 6 handed.

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Hmm. You need to be good all round bro! Rake sucks HU at LL i hear.

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I probably play better full ringed than 6 handed.

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Then play 0.5/1 full and crush the game! You can play 20/10 at 0.5/1 and run hot. You can't expect to crush them with aggro though, that games all about valuetown, which i understand you are still mayor of.

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I don't like playing NL.

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don't hate the playa, hate the game [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Why not? You need to investigate why. More info.

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I could consider a pot limit or split pot type game.

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I bet great Omaha Hi/Lo / 7stud Hi/Lo players can crush the game for less variance. But you'll find less fish. Maybe get Ray Zee's book?

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The nearest live 10/20 game is still heavily raked and is about 90 minutes away.

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dude, don't go there too often. Make it a novelty, reward or social excursion.

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My wife would kill me if I left every weekend to play poker.

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At least she'll have buttercup [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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I like poker. Alot.

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Me too, but you gotta take the bad with the good. Everyone drops bets, everyone has hardship. The best thing about poker is that it's a non-violent and non-threatening (assuming a baseline of not being self-destructive) way to learn about ups and downs, to develop mental and emotional toughness and make some bank. Why else have so many presidents played poker? It's an amazing game.

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I have no confidence right now.

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and that will feed back into your game. Take a break. Don't even read a book on poker for some of that break, take a COMPLETE break. Then study up. If you can't face looking at your own sessions, review someone else's and be detailed in your explanations - that way you can think about your game and create a discussion if (when) the other person disagrees!

Send me sessions if you want some reviews. Read, post and reply more on these forums to improve @ 6handed. More than you do now.

Pete

[Guy McSucker]

Well this is all horribly familiar. I feel feel feel your pain. Sucksville.

Although I pulled out of it a little by dropping waaayyyy down the limits until the play was so awful I spent every session in hysterics laughing at the nonsensical stuff these guys were doing, I didn't really recover my confidence until last week.

What happened last week?

I went to Vegas and played $15/30 at Bellagio. Seriously. Softest limit hold'em game in the world. Absolutely unbelievable, day in day out.

If it's an option for you I would recommend giving it a try. Such fun, and now I feel very confident in my game again, which has made all the difference to my play.

Good luck,

Guy.