More QQ fun in the stars 50 one RA

Bond18 · #1 04-27-2007, 05:42 PM

All i know about villain is that in a hand one round ago he fast played KK pre flop. This is my first hand involved since folding the QQ utg a round ago.

I don't have any reason to believe he's loose enough to call my 4x raise pre with a 9 or 7, i think his most probable hand is missed FD.

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t15/t30
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: t2880
UTG+1: t1960
MP1: t2980
MP2: t880
MP3: t2710
CO: t3065
Button: t2135
SB: t1740
BB: t2650

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero raises to t120, 5 folds, Button calls t120 (pot was t165), SB folds, BB calls t90 (pot was t285).

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (t375, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t275, Button calls t275 (pot was t650), BB folds.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (t925, 2 players)
Hero bets t660, Button calls t660 (pot was t1585).

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (t2245, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button is all-in t1080, Hero calls t1080 (pot was t3325).

Results:
Final pot: t4405

Thoughts?

TimberBee · #2 04-27-2007, 05:56 PM

I guess I play it the same, although I'm not thrilled with it.

I think that you can't get away on flop or turn, and on river, you get good odds, and he's shoving a lot of draws. NH

grafyx · #3 04-27-2007, 06:31 PM

What's with opening to 4x in your QQ posts today? Is this something new for level 1? Hopefully its not a tell you have QQ.

The stack sizes are awkward on the turn, but I think you played it ok. You have to call the river shove given pot odds since you don't put him on a 9 or 7.

Bond18 · #4 04-27-2007, 06:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What's with opening to 4x in your QQ posts today? Is this something new for level 1? Hopefully its not a tell you have QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Noah told me to. Noah is smart.

Just started 4Xing the first couple levels in general unless in LP.

GOONERCAM · #5 04-27-2007, 06:49 PM

very well played IMO. i think its an insta call for a few reasons. 1. would r/r pre/f w/ kings or aces
2. would raise flop w/ any 9 unless 9 7 because it is a very scary board for trips. also, it is unlikely he has a seven to call raise and still may raise to find out where he is. again he calls turn, suggesting to me he is drawing. the draw missed, u check rather nicely and he realises that there is ONLY 1 way for him to win the pot. ALL IN. good stuff

LSgambler · #6 04-27-2007, 06:51 PM

Preflop i would raise 3x. The rest I play the same.

registrar · #7 04-27-2007, 06:56 PM

I like the 4x early against unknowns. It sets up the turn push with big pairs and makes any c-bet much more intimidating with everything else.

Hercules · #8 04-27-2007, 08:38 PM

Bond, i don`t think there`s any reason not to believe that ppl could call you with all kind of crap. A9/A7 is definitely not to far away from calling for many people.
As played i instacall river.

@4x raise people:
Dont you think it will prevent people from calling with stuff like Q9s and stacking of on a Qhihg board?

hERESY · #9 04-28-2007, 02:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What's with opening to 4x in your QQ posts today? Is this something new for level 1? Hopefully its not a tell you have QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Noah told me to. Noah is smart.

Just started 4Xing the first couple levels in general unless in LP.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I'm interested in is what's the reason for the change of heart to a 4xBB raise "in general" or is this a hand-specific raise?

registrar · #10 04-28-2007, 06:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Bond, i don`t think there`s any reason not to believe that ppl could call you with all kind of crap. A9/A7 is definitely not to far away from calling for many people.
As played i instacall river.

@4x raise people:
Dont you think it will prevent people from calling with stuff like Q9s and stacking of on a Qhihg board?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I really think it makes very little difference to people's calling range, especially with a double stack. Most players look at their hand, decide it's pretty and that they want to play it and then check that calling does not do anything drastic to their stack and then call. Also, so many players raise more than 3x at this level that it doesn't look weird. Also, you can mix it up, if you remember what you've shown down. Crucially, though, there is the exponential pot growth over streets and what this entails. Here, you go 4x, flop an overpair v top pair, 2/3 bet and the 2/3 bet, you can be playing for stacks or not on the turn: you have the momentum and it's your choice (you'll be the one making the stack committing bet - you won't be committed). Go 3x, get one caller, bet flop and see turn is not such an advatageous situation.

Mainly, though, do you really think most players look at 78s or 55 or AJo and their 100BB stack an decide to fold to 4x rather 3x? And do we really want the blinds coming in with 64s anyway?

So to take the q9s. Button can call. I might call there. I'm not folding if I flop a pair or draw but calling the c-bet now costs me 180-200 istead of 130-150. And so on.

I really think the value is in 4x early, particularly for TAGs. If you're going to have a VPP of 20+, then betting uniformly small is obviously, or at least probably, better.