PokerTek Poker Pro tables: The inside scoop WHY

[Rick Nebiolo]

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My friend tells me although investment in these machines appears to be fiscally sound, he expects most larger casinos to slowly test the waters ala Hollywood Park - and they may not like the results.

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One problem is that there may be an inherent lack of compatibility between the goals of the ePoker people (which is to get people to use their product) and the goals of most people who work at casinos and card clubs (which in part is to keep their jobs well out into the future). The view inside the cardroom (in this case Hollywood Park where I know about half the staff) was that ePoker and eTables (if it succeeds) clearly threatens existing jobs (and the jobs it may create seem distant and unreachable to these casino workers). So at a not so subtle level you have a tendency for casino workers to sabotage the eTable section within their card club or casino.

To avoid this sabotage the ePoker people may need to run the whole show rather then depend on a partnership (except for the rental of space in a licensed casino or card room). Unfortunately, my experience is that the ePoker people have very little understanding of cardroom operations. The solution for such a venture could be for an ePoker company (and my understanding is that there are more than one) to find people who understand online poker, cardroom poker and procedures, along with something about electronics and computers. That's a hard mix but I can think of a few that qualify (as long as they aren't looking for sycophants [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]).


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A wise investment strategy would be to rent the machines on an as-needed basis for larger casinos such as Bellagio, Wynn, etc if that is possible (I don't know yet), thats the sure way to test the waters by only using them during major tournaments for satelites.

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This idea a winner for the following reasons (and perhaps more I haven't thought of):

- most big casinos holding big tournaments have space for the etables (in a ballroom/convention area)

- eTables probably would be accepted by the more experienced players at big tournaments

- big tournaments already have staffing problems; use of eTables won't threaten existing staff (as much) so they won't work against the success of the ePoker section.

- they would get heavy usage justifying the cost

Perhaps more later but I gotta run [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

~ Rick

[Dennisa]

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My argument for these machines is to just run them for SNG. I spoke to Jay at HP and gave him this suggestion.

2 100+9's per day hit break even according to your info TT. The avg sng is about 45 minutes. In reality you could run 24+6s and 51+9's all day without any breaks. When action is heads up, move them to the heads up table and start a new one.

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SNGs are a hard sell in a casino. Hawaiian Gardens is the top SNG card room in LA yet they really have to press to get about a dozen from 2:00pm to 10:00pm four times a week. As a player you tend to have to much sit (ie. wait for enough players to sign up) and not enough go (i.e., continuous play as you would online).


Sng's are a hard sell at a casino because the juice they charge is twice the amount that online charges and 1/2 the hands are dealt.

Moving SNG's to pokertek machines will increase the hands per hour and can be run profitably at less juice.
Dennisa

~ Rick

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[Rick Nebiolo]

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Sng's are a hard sell at a casino because the juice they charge is twice the amount that online charges and 1/2 the hands are dealt.

Moving SNG's to pokertek machines will increase the hands per hour and can be run profitably at less juice.

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Agree that generally the juice is too high in card club small SNGs but at Hawaiian Gardens they are charging a relatively low $10 juice on a $100 tournament (plus $3 for an extra $100 chip, the dealer keeping the extra chip as a "tip"). This compares favorably with the $100 plus $9 juice on a Party Poker SNG.

But for real small SNGs (let's say $40 entry plus juice) the juice will always be high in a casino even with eTables primarily because the overhead is high relative to the limit. You will never see $2 to $3 juice SNGs and the ability to actually make significant money online playing $11 to $33 SNGs on multiple tables (sort of analogous to the fact you will rarely see 50 cent/1 dollar limit games in a casino).

That said, as TT mentioned eTables might work real well in a huge tournament for satellites. There space often isn't a huge problem (when they are run in convention centers) and staffing is. There you will have little wait, lots of play, and a player base that will appreciate the better blind structure.

~ Rick

[bernie]

Should this be an issue that would make one rethink becoming a dealer for the longterm?

I know it'd make me hesitate as far as longevity.

b

[ChrisConstantine]

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In a typical casino or card room SNG setup you will have very little utilization of the eTables,

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Turning Stone is using etables for SNGs with some success. When I have been there I usually see one or two tables going. These are usually $30+$6 SNG and most of the players are 18-25 and seem happy with the setup.

[GTL]

wouldn't it be awesome if there was a heads up poker machine at the end of the bar. it could just run hu cash or sitngo's. god damn that would be a goldmine.

[Gonso]

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Should this be an issue that would make one rethink becoming a dealer for the longterm?

I know it'd make me hesitate as far as longevity.

b

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Yeah, it will probably put some poker dealers out of work and dissuade others from taking it up, but most of us in AC have other games (and even if you don't, experienced dealers should have no problems learning new games fairly quickly). Same thing happened to a lot of slot people when they started doing all the conversions to cashless games... business is business.

Besides, in this case, they seem like a pretty good idea. These Pokertek machines will eliminate the vast majority of both player and dealer errors, and move the games much faster, and a lot of the poker-boom era players play online as well, so they'll adapt. Craps and blackjack have different crowds.

From a player perspective though, I'd expect the house to at least lower the rake. 10% up to $4 per hand seems like a lot for an unmanned table, even after you consider what you're saving in tokes.

The other issue is that if these catch on like I think they will, you'll probably see smaller, less expensive approximations of this product used in home games appear pretty soon. You certainly don't need a huge computerized table to perform these kinds of functions, a low-end home computer with little GameBoy-type interfaces would get the job done just as well I imagine.

[Howard Beale]

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$146,000/year of found money that is left on the table when using a dealer.

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Much of the money that CAZ rakes finds it's way back into the poker economy because there are so many playing dealers. Remove them and their money is removed and that extra revenue stays w/ the house. Plus, more playing dealers/more games. What will a full conversion to these machines mean to the poker economy?

[Gonso]

More shorthanded games would be spread if I had to guess

[Howard Beale]

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Besides, in this case, they seem like a pretty good idea. These Pokertek machines will eliminate the vast majority of both player and dealer errors, and move the games much faster, and a lot of the poker-boom era players play online as well, so they'll adapt.

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Will the non-online players adapt? I play only live now. There are hordes of players who ask for set-ups and blame the dealer for everything that happens to them. They even throw the cards at the dealer. They smash their chips onto the table. I don't read the internet forum on this forum but on RGP there are 'online is rigged' posts every day. I can just imagine what will happen in B&M play when the bad players keep getting beat. They are going to blame the computer. They will get suspicious that the winners are working for the house and that they are being robbed blind. They can't see the cards being shuffled and dealt and there will be those conspiracy minded people who can never be convince otherwise who aren't going to like it. We will see what we will see but I don't think it's going to be very good for the game.