Live 3/5 NL - Thin Value Bets Inside

[PoppaTMan]

Table lineup changes a little throughout the night, but the general flow remains the same. Basically your standard loose/passive donk fest. Most hands have 3-4 limpers plus the blinds going to the flop. About everyone but one or two will raise their premiums PF. However, when I enter the pot, I am generally raising the 4BB + 1 per limper. It's doing a pretty good job of thinning out the crowd in most hands.

I'm pretty carddead for the entire night, but I'm still running at about 25/15. This is pretty LAG as far as this table is concerned. As such, my image is complete garbage. I'm trying to capitalize on this by making some thin value bets/shoves.

Let it also be known that these specific donkeys are playing small bet poker. If you've ever played live, you know what I'm talking about. A typical betting sequence for someone on this table is flop $25, turn $25, river $30. I'm not sure exactly how my betting style is viewed by them, but I imagine it might be kind of intimidating.

Hands are in chronological order, and I have villains covered in all hands.

Hand 1:

PF: UTG [$300] (very L/P) limps. I raise to 25 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in UTG+2. Everyone folds back to limper, limper calls.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Pot ($55)
UTG checks, I bet 40, UTG calls.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Pot ($135)
UTG checks, I check.

River: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Pot ($135)
UTG checks, I bet 100...



Hand 2:

PF: UTG+1 [~$440] (More solid than the rest), UTG+2 [$200] limp. I raise to 30 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in CO. Everyone folds back to limpers. UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Pot ($70)
UTG+1 checks, I bet 40, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Pot ($150)
UTG+1 checks, I bet 100, UTG+1 calls.

River: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Pot ($350)
UTG+1 checks, I shove for effectively 250...



Hand 3:

PF: Folded to me in HJ. I open to 20 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] . Everyone folds but SB [$300], who calls.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Pot ($40)
SB checks, I bet 30, SB calls.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Pot ($100)
SB checks, I check.

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Pot ($100)
SB checks, I bet 50...



Hand 4:

PF: Folded to me in MP1. I open to 20 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] . Only BB [$470] (possibly a rounder, but plays too loose IMO) calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Pot ($40)
BB leads for 30, I call. (Note: BB has led into me once before. I called. He donked the turn, I folded 88 on a Q high board.)

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Pot ($100)
BB leads for 50, I raise to 150. BB calls.

River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Pot ($400)
BB checks, I shove for effectively 270...



Looking for comments on any streets in the above hands, even PF if you feel the need. But I'd prefer to focus on the bet sizing postflop and moreso on the final river bets. If you'd like any more specific reads on the players, I will do my best to provide.

[chaide]

it seems all perfect to me. I learnt very much ty

[chaide]

Only one question if you want to answer it.In hand 1 2 3 Would u bet turn if you were first to act?

[Big_Jim]

Hand 1: Standard
Hand 2: Sometimes check back the turn, obviously. River shove is totally standard, and not at all thin.
Hand 3: This is the thinnest one, I'd probably just check it back. I doubt you get called by worse very often at all, here.
Hand 4: I'd raise the flop. As played, I'd shove over the turn bet. As played, river bet seems pretty standard.

[chaide]

[ QUOTE ]
Only one question if you want to answer it.In hand 1 2 3 Would u bet turn if you were first to act?

[/ QUOTE ]

please what do you do in that situation?

[billyjex]

Hand 2, I'd check the turn. I don't think he's folding much of anything there.

Hand 4, I'd raise the flop and be willing to felt it.

Well played overall, making lots of value bets is the way to really crush these Commerce games.

[PoppaTMan]

[ QUOTE ]
Only one question if you want to answer it.In hand 1 2 3 Would u bet turn if you were first to act?

[/ QUOTE ]

1) Check 100%
2) Check almost every time.
3) I might be more likely to bet this OOP than in position.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: Standard
Hand 2: Sometimes check back the turn, obviously. River shove is totally standard, and not at all thin.
Hand 3: This is the thinnest one, I'd probably just check it back. I doubt you get called by worse very often at all, here.
Hand 4: I'd raise the flop. As played, I'd shove over the turn bet. As played, river bet seems pretty standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jim,

Hand 1) Do you think my river bet size is correct? My biggest issue with these mediocre river bets is how to size them to induce an incorrect call.
Hand 2) Do you have any opinion on what a good frequency to bet this turn would be? Obviously I'm going to get looked up a lot on this flop by mediocre hands. I was thinking something along the lines of 60% bet/40% check.
Hand 3) I believe you're correct. My thinking at the time is that there might be enough pair+gutter combos that I beat that he'd call with. But there's probably too many Ace-rag hands in his range to make it a good bet.
Hand 4) I know the standard line is to raise the flop bet. However, with the history of my villain following up his flop donk with a turn donk and my holding the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], is the standard line the best to take in this spot?

[Big_Jim]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think my river bet size is correct?

[/ QUOTE ]
Against passive donks, a smaller bet might be better, since you'll end up being behind a good amount of the time.

Otherwise, I like a stronger bet, because it will usually prevent him from c/r bluffing, and look more like big hand/bluff instead of thin value waiting to get blown out.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you have any opinion on what a good frequency to bet this turn would be?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm checking it a lot more often than that. Your outs are weak, and he he has a made hand that he won't drop here a ton. I'd probably only bet it like 25% (rough guess obv)

[ QUOTE ]
I know the standard line is to raise the flop bet. However, with the history of my villain following up his flop donk with a turn donk and my holding the A , is the standard line the best to take in this spot?

[/ QUOTE ]
Waiting for the turn can be okay, but I think that it generally looks a lot stronger than just raising the flop.

Fortunately, his dinky turn bet made it fairly easy to rep a bluff/weak hand.

[PoppaTMan]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone.

Results:

Hand 1) Villain called with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5x. MHIG
Hand 2) Villain called, mucked, and went on a rant about runner runner. MHIG
Hand 3) Villain called and showed AJ. MHING
Hand 4) I thought there was no way I held a loser here, but Villain called and showed 53. Owned. MHING