I admit it, I can't beat blackjack... - Page 3

charlie_t_jr · #21 04-25-2007, 02:04 PM

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However, I think you're a little harsh about the basic strategy thing.

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He's not being harsh, he's being truthful. You're edge in BJ comes from doing several things without error, over and over. Basic strategy...keeping the count...changing BS with the count(16 vs 10 for instance)...and proper bet sizes. Any mistake in the chain can erase your edge. The first link in the chain is basic strategy.

If the count is high and you have a $100 bet out instead of $10 and you don't know what to do with your A7....compounded with even minor mistakes that you might make over and over again...well surely you get the picture.

aargh57 · #22 04-25-2007, 03:00 PM

That's not what I was saying. I know that in order to count that you need to have basic down. It's the same principle as playing tight pf in poker. Playing stuff like Kxos in LP may only be slightly -EV but the decisions come up so often that they end up being very large.

I get it. If you want to learn to count, learning basic cold is mandatory period. However, if your kid brother was going to Vegas wouldn't you want him to buy a basic stratagy card even if you knew he wouldn't play it perfectly?

cardcounter0 · #23 04-25-2007, 05:21 PM

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You're edge in BJ comes from doing several things without error, over and over. Basic strategy...keeping the count...changing BS with the count(16 vs 10 for instance)...and proper bet sizes. Any mistake in the chain can erase your edge. The first link in the chain is basic strategy.

If the count is high and you have a $100 bet out instead of $10 and you don't know what to do with your A7....compounded with even minor mistakes that you might make over and over again...well surely you get the picture.

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Very well said. QFT

rgold79 · #24 04-25-2007, 06:17 PM

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That's not what I was saying. I know that in order to count that you need to have basic down. It's the same principle as playing tight pf in poker.

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No, it isn't.

SheetWise · #25 04-25-2007, 08:20 PM

I met a retired Griffins agent several years ago who is now a good friend. He had suveilled me several times years before we met, and he always came to the same conclusion -- I couldn't be counting because I drank so much when I played. We made a bet -- I had to drink a half quart of vodka, then play 4 hands off a full shoe while counting the shoe down, having a conversation with him and maintaining normal eye contact. I won.

Playing while drinking combined with proper deviation from BS was enough to convince them I was just lucky -- and it worked for several years. To play successfully, you've got to have it down cold -- you've got to already be well past the point when you dream about cards. It really does take a long time if you want to get away with a good game and a good spread. In todays environment, if you haven't already invested a lot of time in BJ -- I wouldn't bother. For the time it takes to get good, you'll probably never recover your investment -- and there are better options.

agent_fish · #26 04-30-2007, 10:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
However, I think you're a little harsh about the basic strategy thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's not being harsh, he's being truthful. You're edge in BJ comes from doing several things without error, over and over. Basic strategy...keeping the count...changing BS with the count(16 vs 10 for instance)...and proper bet sizes. Any mistake in the chain can erase your edge. The first link in the chain is basic strategy.

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In Sklansky Talks Blackjack, DS says deviating from BS is not necessary in order to gain an edge. By just increasing one's bets when the count becomes favorable, one can become the favorite. Of course, deviating adds to one's edge.

agent_fish · #27 04-30-2007, 10:38 PM

Cardcounter and Sheetwise:

Wouldn't working with a team make counting much more profitable? Have either of you ever been members of a team? Care to share?

Card counting interests me on an intellectual level. I like the math and memorization. The profit potential also interests me, but I realize that is probably a pipe dream.

Nevertheless, if anyone wants to talk to me about it, PM me. I know a bit about it, and would like to know more. I have BS down cold from long sessions of bonus whoring, but I don't know the deviations. I have practiced counting a bit at home, and when I'm waiting for poker at the casino I've been playing -EV BJ and trying to count down the decks (just for fun, I'm still not that good at it) while sticking to $10 bets and BS strategy.

SheetWise · #28 05-01-2007, 07:04 AM

I almost always had a team. It's more profitable, but the win gets split up. The sessions are shorter -- and you get less play time in a day because sessions take time to set up. You have to rearrange teams and select clubs/shifts based upon all players histories. This won't work in towns that have 1 or 2 casinos offering a good game, you need more selection -- and you have to reduce travel time. Even in Vegas it would be hard today.

I haven't played a team in 10 years -- but I don't play for income any longer. Given what I know, I wouldn't start again today -- the easy money is gone, and it isn't coming back. You've got 6:5 BJ, no mid-shoe entry, CSM's, etc. -- and they're going to become more common.