"Hold 'em on the come" and "Weighing the odds"

[rmg13]

Weighing the odds in hold em poker by KING YAO &
Hold em on the come: limit hold em strategy for drawing hands by SLOTBOOM and MASON

I'd like to purchase one if not both of these books and was looking for some advice, reviews, etc. from some people. I regularly play 3-6 and 4-8 live and .50-1 and 1-2 online. I don't know for sure but I'm guessing I ave. about 2 bb/hour live and probably around 1 bb/ hour online.


I tried searching for posts about these books on these forums, but the search gave me some pretty irrelevant returns. If there's been some stuff posted on these books and someone could kindly direct me to them I would apprieciate it.

[agoldenbear]

Yao's book is highly regarded by most everyone. It is quite dry but very dense and accurate in its information.

[Poker Plan]

Can only comment on Yao's book. I think it's one of the best poker books I own. Personally, I find it a little easier to digest than SSHE. It's a little more maths biased- which I think is a good thing.

[phydaux]

I actually prefer Yao's book over Small Stakes Hold'em. If someone were to ask for only one limit hold'em book to read for their entire life, Weighing the Odds would be my recommendation.

Hold'em on the Come is money. That's really the only way to put it. In loose, low limit games where there are lots of players seeing the flop and calling bets on later streets, the hands that make you the most money are the straights & flushes. However, there's usually a chance that you can make the hand you're drawing to and still NOT win the pot. That's where discounting outs comes in. Hold'em on the Come has a complete and systematic method for counting and discounting outs. Pure gold for a limit player.

That's the first half of the book. The second half is an awkward system of estimating implied odds that is really pure garbage. But the first half of the book is so good that it overshadows the last half.

I consider both these books to be required reading for any semi-serious limit player.

[amulet]

i think weighing the odds is a good book. however, people here seem to like it more then i do.

i don't think it is in a class with ssh or hpfra. weighing the odds is much more clearly written them the other two books i mentioned. and sections of it are terrific. however, weighing seems to lack something on river play especially in value betting on the river and calling when the pots is big. additionally, i think ssh covers playing in wild games better, ssh reiterate the reasons and the math behind the decisions. weighing is better at short handed play.

overall, it is a good book and i recommend it. again, i think ssh and hlfap (although poorly written in comparison) when combined (or individually) will give you a better understanding of how to play.

[Kicker1]

I also really like Weighing The Odds. You can still find the river chapter from the book online as a free preview. http://bj21.com/ads/weighing_the_odd...0chap%2015.pdf

[Packard]

Hold Em on the Come is a great book. Definately get it. Lots of innovative ideas about counting outs, and this book has some awesome charts.

I am one of the rare people who didn't like Weighing the Odds. This book is mostly a re-run of other books that I have already read although the info is good. There is a little new info there.

[amulet]

kicker, i think this chapter was a little weak. however, my above post was mostly referring to earlier in the book where he discusses river play in less detail. there he uses several example to advocating folding in big pots that i think are not correct.

he also doesn't bet the river enough.

i don't disagree with his math in the chapter you posted, however, i think it is more str8 forward to tell a player that if your opponent has not shown strength when you bet each street, then bet the river - the pot is never big enough, and that bet can dramaticly effect your hourly rate. instead he uses a math, which while correct will be difficult for many to quantify at the table for most players. his river play of estimating your percentages is somewhat impractical for the average player. where in ssh they go through the math, but ALSO offer very srt8 forward practical suggestion. the river section slightly of reminds me of the dipo, not that practical.

(fyi - i took a lot of advanced math in school and am very good at math. if i am critizing the use of math then i must feel that it is pretty impractical advice)

again, i like the book and recommend it, but i just think many here overrate it because the writing is very clear.

[fnord_too]

Both are definitely worth reading. Yao's book is great if you like more quantitative anlyses that qulaitative summary of analyses. (That is, Yao shows you the math and how it changes if your assumptions change almost everywhere iirc, vice showing a little bit of math and then relying more on qualitative summation of the analyses that one finds in also great books like SSHE).

[rmg13]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I've already read books such as WLLH by Lee Jones and SSHE but it looks like i should pick up YAO's book too. I'll definitely be getting hold 'em on the come as well.