More guns the way to go? Some thoughs.

[MuresanForMVP]

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Some other subtle differences: The US has a border with Mexico, a very poor country where guns are availible, does NOrway have these borders?

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Norway shares a border with Russia.



Mexico: 3.2 / 17.2
Russia: 41.2 / 30.6

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VS.




This doesn't really seem to be very equal does it?

[slickss]

He asked, I answered.

Don't get me wrong. I do consider the USA-Mexico border to be much "worse" than the Norway-Russia border, at least right now. There are many other reasons why strict gun-control works in Norway, and maybe not in USA. It's a richer country and, more importantly, the wealth is more evenly distributed. The minimum wage in Norway is close to $16 per hour.

[pvn]

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But the majority *does* the mugging. They give themselves permission. Just like the mugger.

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Wrong. The majority isn't a living breathing entity capable of taking an action. Individuals propose actions (or take actions), majority rule arbitrates conflicts (people objecting to those proposals or actions).

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Wait, you just said it doesn't take action, then in the next sentence you list an action it takes? Is arbitration not an action?

THe individuals in the majority give permission (not that it's actually theirs to give) to their favored agents to carry out the action.

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When's the last time the majority of Americans got together in a room and then decided on an action to take? Majority rule isn't an entity that acts like a mugger, it is an arbitration system.

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Some of my money is taken away from my with the threat of violence if I resist. This sure seems "like" a mugging to me.

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Explain to me again why the majority allows government but doesn't allow mugging if they're evidently the exact same thing. You seem to have forgotten to answer that while appealing to people's emotions (Taxes are bad! Don't you just hate taxes!)

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Wow, that's a softball. In the "standard" mugging, only the mugger himself benefits. The mob doesn't like competition.

Why does the government allow one firm to sell, say telephone service, but not another? These are the exact same thing, yet the number of cell phone licenses is arbitrarily limited in any given market.

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So get enough people together and it's suddenly right?

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Sure, but you're ignoring the obvious fact that you won't be able to get a majority to agree with you because it's clearly not right.

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But if I did, it would be! Circular logic.

[mosdef]

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Explain to me again why the majority allows government but doesn't allow mugging if they're evidently the exact same thing.

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Wow, that's a softball. In the "standard" mugging, only the mugger himself benefits.

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"It's a mugging! All the connotations that apply to the word mugging apply here because that's what it IS!"
"No it's not, it's completely different for the following reasons."
"It's a non-standard mugging."
"Fine. Sunshine is just non-standard rain."
"That's crazy."
"Precisely."

[nef]

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Also, if you make guns illegal, the supply of guns will drop dramatically, regardless of the demand. Who is going to make new guns if their manufacturer and importation is illegal? It's not like the average criminal can create a handgun (or even a bullet) in his basement. Obviously, there will be existing guns floating around for a few decades, but I think most gun control advocates acknowledge that they really forsee a gun-free society 50-years down the road, and not 5-years.

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Criminals already make home made guns.

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Can you please cite an example of a murder where someone used a homemade handgun?...and I don't mean from a prepackaged gun kit. I remember a movie where John Malkovich builds a wooden handgun to evade security to assassinate the president, but I have never heard of an actual murder being committed with anything like this.

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Not a murder, but here's a video of Pakistanis in the Khyber Pass building guns in caves.

Khyber Pass

[JOHNY CA$H]

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I would never kill someone because they stole something from me.

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Neither would I. But because I am willing and able to defend myself, the chance that someone will try to steal from me is greatly reduced. And because the would-be theif cannot tell the willing and able from the defenseless, the chances that the defenseless will be victimized are also reduced.

Do you see why?

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Which is great, except for the fact that in reality it doesn't work this way.

[JOHNY CA$H]

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If no one has guns

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Aaaand we're back to the faeries, pixies, and magical unicorns.

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and Norway.

[mosdef]

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If no one has guns

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Aaaand we're back to the faeries, pixies, and magical unicorns.

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and Norway.

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Do they have faeries and pixies in Norway? I would have guessed valkyries.

[JOHNY CA$H]

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What is it about American firearm ownership that Europeans (and others) just can't stand?

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The part where +10,000 die each year.

It's not the ownership of guns that is upsetting people so much, it's the unwillingness of many Americans to even acknowledge the downside that comes with it. Being so unwilling to even think about gun control leads to blind spots, and sometimes to some pretty wacky conclusions (ie "Let's arm professors!"). If you honestly weigh the pros and cons and decide it's worth it for your country to allow citizens to carry guns, then that's fine. It's the unwillingness to even look at the possibility of regulations by some that is baffling to others of a different culture. There are pros and cons to carrying guns. They have to be explored honestly.

[John Kilduff]

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What is it about American firearm ownership that Europeans (and others) just can't stand?

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The part where +10,000 die each year.

It's not the ownership of guns that is upsetting people so much, it's the unwillingness of many Americans to even acknowledge the downside that comes with it. Being so unwilling to even think about gun control leads to blind spots, and sometimes to some pretty wacky conclusions (ie "Let's arm professors!"). If you honestly weigh the pros and cons and decide it's worth it for your country to allow citizens to carry guns, then that's fine. It's the unwillingness to even look at the possibility of regulations by some that is baffling to others of a different culture. There are pros and cons to carrying guns. They have to be explored honestly.

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Speaking of "honest exploration", why does it seem that nearly all of the pro-gun-control folks just seem to FLAT-OUT IGNORE the large body of statistical evidence that runs contrary to their personal conclusions? Studies done by the CDC, the UN, and many other independent organizations...???