Serial Killer vs. Shooting Spree

[JJNJustin]

Someone on the radio was comparing the Virginia Tech killer to killers like Jeffrey Dahmer and David Berkowitz, and it stuck me that these seem to be two completely different kind of murderers, one stalking and killing many victims over a periods of months or years, the other killing many victims all at once before usually committing suicide.

It stuck me that although the results are tragic in both casis, the psychology behind their actions was probably very different. The most obvious is that the "shooting spree" type killer seems to have a breaking point at which he has no regard for his own life nor that of others, whereas the serial killer seems very predatory, cautious, and goes to great lengths not to get caught so he can repeat his crimes at a later date.

Do you feel some or all these types of killers are mentally sick? To what degree? How similar and "syndromatic" are their actions? It is often been pointed out that they "show no remorse," and this has been used as a justification for punishment. However, as pointed about by forensic psychiatrists, their minds are so controlled by their sickness that they are incapable of showing any human emotion. Interestingly, some who have been brought back towards normalcy by therapy killed themselves immediately in recognition of the horrific crimes they committed. In light of this fact, how do we rectify a need for justice against these horrible crimes and a killer who has basically succumbed to a horrible form of mental illness?

How do you punish an illness?

-J

[Beermantm]

Unfortunately getting help for mental illness or depression is almost impossible when the person isn't seeking help, when the person has no insurance, when the doctors are not very good at identifying the problems, and when even with insurance the person can not afford it. The worst part is being trapped in your own mind looking out at everyone who is just saying snap out of it or whats wrong with you?? That is the [censored] that makes you want to kill people!! I had my own personal problems in this regards and it took my mothers demand for me to go get help. Being a tradesmen you get this macho man response to everything so I always thought that these problems were a bunch of crap until I started experiencing them myself. The thing that brought me down the most was when I hit the point of when I could read the eyes of people in my own family looking at me like I was some sort of alien.... A look of disgust and disbelief that penetrated to my very core. Now two years later after my mother found the right doctor and I got on Prozac for a while and it was a night and day difference. I got off the Prozac now and I've been going strong, although I probably should still be on my meds I now have a new outlook at the reason for the way I'm feeling and feel to have a better control. I hope I get to the point of consistent insurance and consistent medicine but until then a couple of rips of Ganja seems to quite the noise down a bit.

Drawing from my experience I can extremely understand how people get stuck in there own minds. It's like a loop of everywhere you turn, you can't trust people, they don't see what you see, pretty soon thoughts of violence to yourself start recurring and then violence toward others because this worlds apparent lack of caring and to some extent the constant barrage of bad news clouding your mind. The saddest part is this kid probably wouldn't have hurt a fly if he fell in love with some girl and had a couple of close friends. What it basically comes down to is people need other people to care.

As for your Serial killer types I really don't understand much of it because I don't think I could ever extract joy from hurting others but I think that it is tied to the sexual part of the brain and the processes that happen in those parts. It's like a twisted control/power thing that grows but I've never really had thoughts down those lines so I wouldn't pretend to understand them at all.

I don't think you should try to punish an illness but attempts to identify it should be made and there should be help available but there's not and attempts at identifying it and forcing treatment bring in BS Legal issues. It shows us how messed up law really is. All you need to do is try to help someone like anyone decent person should do. People are full of [censored] though because they will claim to be something like a Cristian and then never reach out to others to make them feel excepted or cared about. I know I grew up Catholic and the environment was always who is the toughest and who is in the cool crowd. That is just nature I guess but it does say a lot about leaving people behind.

[omaha]

Aggree with OP 100%. I think serial killers vs the loners who snap are two entirely different fckd up minds

[TheHip41]

If I were to kill ppl, I'd go serial killer. Much more prestige in that. I mean, anyone can get a few guns and kill 30 people in 10 minutes, a la Grand Theft Auto.

It takes cunning, and planning to kill 30 people over 10 years and not get caught.

[mike_oxbig]

Go Pick up Hunting Humans by Elliot Lleyton (brag he actually taught me the course)

It's an amazing read and look into the minds of serial killers and mass murderers

[Goodnews]

If I were to kill people, I would go shooting spree, except be so armed and plan it so well, it would take days. I would take hostages but only to act as a decoy, ala The Inside Man style. I would tie up the hostages and then toss out all of the personal belongings that includes ID, and toss out mine (a fake) as well. I will then demand food to feign like I am going to be in it for the long haul, I would then kill a hostage, but make it so that none of the other hostages see me do it. I would make it look like as if it were a suicide. I would also demanding something ridiculous like a helicopter to keep negotiators talking. I will then negotiate to have one hostage released as a show of good faith, but instead release myself.

At which point, depending on the surroundings, I will either setup behind the barricade and open fire into the police, at the same time, rig the guns in the original location to fire at a preset time, to make it so as if I had snapped and mask the sound of the real gun I am firing at the flank. I would probably need some sort of rocker to have movement in the shadows so that my lack of presence is not prematurely discovered.

At this point, they will be forced to take me down by force, but before that, there will be a ton of excitement and will allow me to leave free to plan another attack.

Either that, or go on a shooting spree and have multiple exits. In regards to the VT shooting, if he decided to go to Rudolph (I think this is the name of the building), he could have escaped through the underground tunnels that lead to other buildings.

By the way, I have no intention of acting out the above, but a mass murdering killer than can plan out his attack is alot more dangerous than anyone gives them credit for. Thank God noone this sick has emerged yet.

[demon102]

I think a serial killer is closely related to an addict, like a drug addict or a child molester. They know that what they are doing is not right and want to stop cuz of the consequences of there actions but they feel empty without it. Whereas a mass murderer just hits the point where there is no more hope and there is a ton of anger and pain about everyone/thing around them. They just want to inflict as much pain and agony on everyone else around them that they have been thru before there lives end.

[Mllndllrmn]

Yes the OP makes sense, but in the end, the cut and dry of it is that the guy killed 30 people. I don't care what sickness you want to say it is he killed people and should be punished. It is easy to analyze it from the outside but imagine being a parent or husband to a victim. Then do you say "Oh he is just sick lets get him help". I understand your conclusion, but then anyone could go out and grab a gun and kill people then claim innocent by insanity, and pay a psycologist to get them locked up instead of killed.

[Micturition Man]

Slightly off topic, imo it's very inappropriate that the media always uses Jeffrey Dahmer as an example of "the face of evil!" or "pure evil personified!" or whatever.

I think they just pick Dahmer because he was one of the most recent major American serial killers and because his crimes were fairly grisly.

But morally speaking, he ranks way down the list of serial killers in terms of how bad he was.

He wasn't even a sadist for one thing. He was basically a loner with serious social anxieties who could only find sexual satisfaction with corpses. So he killed people in order to have sex.

Bad as that may sound that is a world away from most serial killers, who torture and rape and have domination fantasies and are complete sociopaths. It wouldn't suprise me if Dahmer wouldn't have killed at all if he had access to lifelike corpse-dolls to have his way with (not joking here.)

Someone like Ted Bundy or Ken and Karla Holmoka are much worse.

Just saying...

[Mike]

I think I was watching 20/20 last night and they had FBI people on who made comparisons between serial killers and school killers. According to them they are more alike than different in their personalities. They just extract their price differently.

What sickens me most with the school killings, is a few people usually have some idea what is going on but never tell anyone their concerns or fears. I am glad I am not looking in the mirror each day knowing that I knew someone at school was going to murder my classmates and I did not tell anyone about it.