working on my omaha game

[Better Than U]

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River bet is bad. Check behind.
As played, I can't see you winning anywhere often enough to make this a call. He has KK really often or quads.
Feels like quads given turn check. If he had bet there, KK or bluff.
If he lead river, bluff or your beat. Here, just beat.

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checking behidn river seems like a results oriented post

[/ QUOTE ]fyp

[True]

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You could argue this all you want, but in sum:

3345 can be a favorite over KKxx. 3345 will often have greater implied odds than KKxx. KKxx is going to be a lot harder to play correctly for most players, especially OOP.


here's a somewhat biased simulation, although I did give the middle player higher spades, which nullfies 3345's spade draw:

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
9s Kc 8d Kh 150855 30.17 349145 69.83 0 0.00 0.302
As Qs Jd Th 165104 33.02 334896 66.98 0 0.00 0.330
4s 3s 5c 3c 184041 36.81 315959 63.19 0 0.00 0.368

just goes to show you that 3345 is a favorite over KKxx in some spots.

point i'm trying to make is basically this:

KKxx is harder to play

3345 has better implied odds

KKxx is usually only a 55-45 favorite HU.

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lol, you can say that 22 is a favourite against AK, doesn't mean that 22 is the better hand to hold.

[greywolf]

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i play any KK hand before i play 3345,A332 and similar hands. With a hand like 3345 the flop must come down exactly A23 for you to really like your hand, I do play them in good position though but folding any hand with KK while playing 3345 doesnt make sense.

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you must not be familiar with the raise button, or the bet button. you can use them whenever you like.

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lol. What has that to do with the value of KK vs 3345. I know very well that you can steal alot of pots in omaha.

But i sometimes play against great competion that wont fold too much, against that kind of players i want to be playing hands that flop the nuts more often than low cards like 3345 do. There is just not much value in playing 3345 and the like unless the stacks are deep you are in position and play well postflop. but with those game conditions you can play almost any four. With KK you will flop a set 1 time out of 8,5 flops, losing to AAA is very rare and unimproved KKK is the nuts on some boards.

compare that to 3345 and similar hands where you will either pick up a lots of small pots ( only possible if you opp. folds too much)

or you make big money when 1. you flop quads when your opp. flops overfull. 2. you flop A23 and you opponent holds 45 with no backup and i happy to get it allin. 3.your opponent holds AAA on A23 flop and is happy to build a big pot.

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im so glad i started playing omaha. woooooooooooooooooow is all i can say to that

[/ QUOTE ] I have done some thinking and i can not find anything wrong with my post expect that i did not take bother taking position into account. Could you please be so kind and point out whatever part of my thinking process that you find so laughable?

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You could argue this all you want, but in sum:

3345 can be a favorite over KKxx. 3345 will often have greater implied odds than KKxx. KKxx is going to be a lot harder to play correctly for most players, especially OOP.


here's a somewhat biased simulation, although I did give the middle player higher spades, which nullfies 3345's spade draw:

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
9s Kc 8d Kh 150855 30.17 349145 69.83 0 0.00 0.302
As Qs Jd Th 165104 33.02 334896 66.98 0 0.00 0.330
4s 3s 5c 3c 184041 36.81 315959 63.19 0 0.00 0.368

just goes to show you that 3345 is a favorite over KKxx in some spots.

point i'm trying to make is basically this:

KKxx is harder to play

3345 has better implied odds

KKxx is usually only a 55-45 favorite HU.

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Posting a random simulation that shows off 3345 as a money favourite doesnt prove anything. I could just as easily post a simulation where 3345 is crushed completely equity wise. If you had at least posted a simulation with HD range vs HD range vs HD range instead of Hand vs Hand vs Hand

The two points you are trying to make are no good.
KK is alot easier to play because when you hit your king you have the nuts or a draw to the nuts. Even if i agree that 3345 have better implied odds they also have really bad reverse implied odds which KKxx doesnt.

Im not going to spend more time elaborating on this. It is too basic.

[Genius28]

Grim is your name SHawn?

[TxRedMan]

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Posting a random simulation that shows off 3345 as a money favourite doesnt prove anything.

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Actually, it proves that 3345 can be a favorite over KKxx.

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KK is alot easier to play because when you hit your king you have the nuts or a draw to the nuts.

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Expert.

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Im not going to spend more time elaborating on this. It is too basic.

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expert expert.

[Daddy Warbucks]

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grim have you ever posted a hand you won?

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Why would he want advice on a hand he won?!

[Micturition Man]

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Grim, you played this hand like you flopped the nut flush, checked behind when the board paired on the turn, and decided to value-bet when checked to on the river on the double-paired board -- so it's a very good spot for him to check-raise bluff. If he is a good aggressive player capable of that kind of move, then it's a definite call. Also you should have bet the turn.

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I strongly agree up to the last sentence.

To me betting the turn invites a bluff for the same reasons betting the river does. A good opponent is going to seriously doubt you have a boat on the turn after leading the flop.

[RoundTower]

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Grim, you played this hand like you flopped the nut flush, checked behind when the board paired on the turn, and decided to value-bet when checked to on the river on the double-paired board -- so it's a very good spot for him to check-raise bluff. If he is a good aggressive player capable of that kind of move, then it's a definite call. Also you should have bet the turn.

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I strongly agree up to the last sentence.

To me betting the turn invites a bluff for the same reasons betting the river does. A good opponent is going to seriously doubt you have a boat on the turn after leading the flop.

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yeah call river, I think you have a flush a lot in this spot. Also I think checking turn is fine though I don't think you get checkraise bluffed very much.