Why The Dude Converted

[Subfallen]

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This is getting silly...relevant to what/who?
From Wiki: "Lewis's works have been translated into over 30 languages and continue to sell over a million copies a year; the books that comprise The Chronicles of Narnia have sold over 100 million copies. A number of stage and screen adaptations of Lewis's works have also been produced..."

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ROFL, yes, popular consumption of literature is the only reasonable metric of its greatness. What was I thinking? But seriously, Lewis was an utterly forgettable author. As a pop theologian, he was however outstanding.

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You're seriously not equating Dawkins and his ilk with Boyle, Newton, etc. are you?

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WTF does Dawkins and memetics have do to with anything? I'm talking about 93% of the US National Academy of Sciences! And although there is not much "first principles" work left to be done, I do very much equate the significance and subtlety of modern science with the contributions of Newton, Boyle, et al. It would be insane to argue otherwise.

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The first part insinuates that a theist cannot be top-level but you leave yourself an out by saying "not likely". Again...the guys who came up with natural and scientific "LAWS" not top level???

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Are you retarded? Let me say it again: theism and scientific prowess ARE COMPATIBLE. BUT IN THE MODERN AGE THEY ARE ALSO INVERSELY CORRELATED. DRAW YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS.

[bernie]

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This is reallllllly wishy-washy. To the people who hold this view: Do you also take this stance on things like the tooth fairy, goblins, ghosts, santa? Maybe we're all part of some giant bug's dream. Why is believing in God any different?

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Toothfairy and santa don't exist. There are origins for how they came about.

Goblins(or something like them) could be on another planet.

A ghost could be much the same as a higher power to some degree.

Difference? Wars and atrocities haven't been done over toothfairies, santas, ghosts and goblins. And none of those even come close to comparison of the creation of the universe. Or do you really hold those in the same light?

b

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Not sure I understand your point.

The second part of my post is my real objection with religion. "Just because something cannot be disproved does not mean both viewpoints are equally valid."

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They don't have to be equally valid. It's just neither side is 100% or anywhere close to that. It's not necesarily black and white.

What I wonder is the people who just pick one side because they feel they 'have' to pick a side, when they really are in the middle about it. To me, that's not really being true to your belief. It's hedging a bet so, just in case, they might slide in to heaven on a technicality.

If a god knows all, he'd see right through that. But he'd also understand the reasoning and wouldn't really care less what you believed. People act like it's a game show where you have to pick a door and you're stuck with your choice, that's it, just one shot. Well, if that's the case, I wouldn't want to be a part of that bs anyways. I don't play that game. To me, THAT's wishy washy.

b

[diddle]

bernie,

There are many unanswerable questions that we have concerning the universe. I am assuming that "god" to you is simply the answer to these questions. Fair?

[HP]

Dude,

I remember a year or two ago you made a post in SMP which revealed you were a Christian, and I said "wow you don't seem like the christian type". I searched hard for it but cannot find the post

to which you replied "yeah, I get that a lot"

I have never said that to anyone in my life before, or heard a christian get told that, and apparently you do a lot. Do you think it's coincidence you have now not become not a chritian, or something more?

[The Dude]

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I remember a year or two ago you made a post in SMP which revealed you were a Christian, and I said "wow you don't seem like the christian type"... to which you replied "yeah, I get that a lot"

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Haha, yeah. I remember that post. I think the exact exchange was "That surprises me, you don't seem like the type." And I said, "Yeah, I get that a lot."

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I have never said that to anyone in my life before, or heard a christian get told that, and apparently you do a lot. Do you think it's coincidence you have now not become not a chritian, or something more?

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Well, most people in this world aren't very willing to challenge their basic axioms, and this is perhaps most obvious of Christians. For several years now I've been willing to test my basic assumptions and see if they can stand scrutiny. "The Bible is God's unfailing word" was one of the first to go.

And sure, there are a decent number of Christians who don't accept the theology they were spoon fed in Sunday School, but it takes a certain combination of circumstances for one to really continue the process of challenging. You usually have to have people you can have conversations with on both sides who argue fairly (rare on either side), and you have to have enough exposure to the debate over a long enough time to allow you to change. That's also not common.

So no, I don't really think it's coincidence, but I do feel fortunate in that the circumstances of my life (not all actively created by me) fostered the change in a healthy way.

[LouBlue]

So those of us who have had those conversations and made those examinations but come up with the conclusion that God does exist or that the Bible *is* inspired are sadly delusional, eh?

[KungFuManchu]

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If everyone's religion was science we would have advanced much faster as a civilization.

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There is still the fact that a lot of people need to belive that their is something higher out there. Some need it as a crutch, some dont want to belive that this could very well be it. Once cognitive concoious thought came into play, the idea of gods/god/deities has always been around.

Example. Describe to many people the science of poker. Let them play online for a while (and you find many posts like this in the internet forum), but they start running bad, they belive there is a man behind the pokerroom curtain out to doomswitch them. It gets pretty retarded. But talk to a group of players that play live only, they still think what they think.

Do I think its that clear cut with God and the bible, no not really, but I think it goes kind of up that alley. Besides, look at the history of christianity, through a series of important historical choices, especially by Constantine, its just the religion that got favored and outlasted the others. I suppose some would argue that it could be the will of God that made it possible, but all chrisitanity is is an anagram of various older religions.

[bernie]

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bernie,

There are many unanswerable questions that we have concerning the universe. I am assuming that "god" to you is simply the answer to these questions. Fair?

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Fair? Actually, way off the mark.

You think I'm part of an organized religion/believe in their god? Not on your life.

God isn't the definitive answer to any of the questions. There are no definitive answers, yet.

b

[HP]

Dude, from what little I know of you, that sounds about right. And yes I agree the majority (on both sides) aren't very willing to challenge their basic axioms

Thank you for sharing this with us, much respect

[LouBlue]

Subfallen, The numbers I have always heard batted around were:

40% - Theists
40% - Athiests
20% - Agnostics

I'm curious where you got the 90% athiest figure?


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LOL, yes I suppose it's just a coincidence that >90% of scientists are atheists.

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