Does the "wholesome" poker player exist (anymore)?

[antisocialgrace]

It pains me to say this, but you have to look long and hard for a lower class of people than 'professional' gamblers and poker players ... casino hosts or family law attorneys maybe, but that's about it.

I've become convinced by recent events and what I know of the not so recent ones that professional poker is pretty much the province of degenerates and hustlers little handicapped by a collective conscience. I could tick off a veritable laundry list of incidents to back up my contention, but I have better things to do than convince mostly obnoxious young and upcoming hustlers it's valid.

Your idea is constructive, but I don't see the advent of it or anything like it. The fact is the charlatans and angle shooters who are doing well don't want to change anything. From what I've been able to gather, these supposed 'ambassadors of the game' couldn't care too much less about what kind of image they tender the market so long as it doesn't negatively impact their bottom lines. I mean honestly, what should we forecast of opportunists who so often employ ruse and deception in their material lives? What kind of scruples might we credit those who have little or no second thoughts about divesting someone who doesn't know any better of everything they have? What should we expect of formidable young men and women invested with prodigious acuity of mind and body who've nonetheless chosen to forsake any number of pursuits that could have actually made things better for mankind as a whole? Are we really that surprised that as a community we find ourselves so exiled from respectability these days?

For me this poses a dilemma. The truth is I've struggled the better part of my existence with mental illness and have a life chock full of failure and under achievement to show for it. I will spare this forum the details mostly because too many in it are incapable of understanding or empathizing with humility much less caring about anyone other than themselves. Suffices to say I've been hungry for a good long while for some sense of affirmation through accomplishment and I'm rather limited in the things I can do to achieve this. According to Social Security I'm actually 'disabled', incapable of holding down a regular income generating occupation.

One of the few things I am able to do relatively trouble free is use a Home PC. In the last year and a half this has lead to my becoming infatuated with the game of poker. The constant bad beats that besiege a LAG temper my ardor so I wouldn't call it a perfect romance, but I do LOVE this game! I played fake stakes on PS until I had accumulated so much that more became moot. I tried to learn as much as I could from the resources available, not all of which I could easily afford (necessitating the sort of refinement of my personal ethics poker players are famous for).

It's unfortunate that I've become successful ( PTBB/100 14.05 45k hands since Oct 06, albeit very low stakes). Why is this a shame? Because I feel like I'm becoming what I detest and there isn't anything I can do about it. To be truthful I'm pretty damn frustrated it even bothers me! I know the source of my conflict is all the jerkoffs in this racket who've elevated making the easiest and most equity far and above respecting the bona fide purity and science of the game. If it were about the game it could be respected as a relatively benign pastime. It should be about winning. Instead it's about paying off the floor manager, chip dumping, soft playing, proposition playing, proposition betting, looking for marks, colluding, shortcutting, angle shooting or getting facetime, favors and lucrative endorsement deals that completely obscure the prospectus for the vast majority of those who will take less away.

In the end it's lots of little hustles that add up to one big one.

[Apathy]

Wow some of the names of people in this thread are scary people who shouldn't be trusted. Pretty far from wholesome.

That being said of course there are wholesome poker players, depending on your definition of course...

[ReturnoftheKing]

Bill Gustafik. especially lifestyle

[bones]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow some of the names of people in this thread are scary people who shouldn't be trusted. Pretty far from wholesome.

That being said of course there are wholesome poker players, depending on your definition of course...

[/ QUOTE ]

I would lay a pretty sick line that you stumbled on this thread by searching "Apathy", then actually laughed out loud at the association.

[bones]

[ QUOTE ]
It pains me to say this, but you have to look long and hard for a lower class of people than 'professional' gamblers and poker players ... casino hosts or family law attorneys maybe, but that's about it.

I've become convinced by recent events and what I know of the not so recent ones that professional poker is pretty much the province of degenerates and hustlers little handicapped by a collective conscience. I could tick off a veritable laundry list of incidents to back up my contention, but I have better things to do than convince mostly obnoxious young and upcoming hustlers it's valid.

Your idea is constructive, but I don't see the advent of it or anything like it. The fact is the charlatans and angle shooters who are doing well don't want to change anything. From what I've been able to gather, these supposed 'ambassadors of the game' couldn't care too much less about what kind of image they tender the market so long as it doesn't negatively impact their bottom lines. I mean honestly, what should we forecast of opportunists who so often employ ruse and deception in their material lives? What kind of scruples might we credit those who have little or no second thoughts about divesting someone who doesn't know any better of everything they have? What should we expect of formidable young men and women invested with prodigious acuity of mind and body who've nonetheless chosen to forsake any number of pursuits that could have actually made things better for mankind as a whole? Are we really that surprised that as a community we find ourselves so exiled from respectability these days?

For me this poses a dilemma. The truth is I've struggled the better part of my existence with mental illness and have a life chock full of failure and under achievement to show for it. I will spare this forum the details mostly because too many in it are incapable of understanding or empathizing with humility much less caring about anyone other than themselves. Suffices to say I've been hungry for a good long while for some sense of affirmation through accomplishment and I'm rather limited in the things I can do to achieve this. According to Social Security I'm actually 'disabled', incapable of holding down a regular income generating occupation.

One of the few things I am able to do relatively trouble free is use a Home PC. In the last year and a half this has lead to my becoming infatuated with the game of poker. The constant bad beats that besiege a LAG temper my ardor so I wouldn't call it a perfect romance, but I do LOVE this game! I played fake stakes on PS until I had accumulated so much that more became moot. I tried to learn as much as I could from the resources available, not all of which I could easily afford (necessitating the sort of refinement of my personal ethics poker players are famous for).

It's unfortunate that I've become successful ( PTBB/100 14.05 45k hands since Oct 06, albeit very low stakes). Why is this a shame? Because I feel like I'm becoming what I detest and there isn't anything I can do about it. To be truthful I'm pretty damn frustrated it even bothers me! I know the source of my conflict is all the jerkoffs in this racket who've elevated making the easiest and most equity far and above respecting the bona fide purity and science of the game. If it were about the game it could be respected as a relatively benign pastime. It should be about winning. Instead it's about paying off the floor manager, chip dumping, soft playing, proposition playing, proposition betting, looking for marks, colluding, shortcutting, angle shooting or getting facetime, favors and lucrative endorsement deals that completely obscure the prospectus for the vast majority of those who will take less away.

In the end it's lots of little hustles that add up to one big one.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is beyond ridiculous. It's like a 4th grader saying he doesn't wanna play in the NFL because of guys like Pacman Jones.

In every profession, it is each man's responsibility to follow his own moral compass. I promise that microstakes internet poker will not magically turn you into an evil person who is constantly looking to angleshoot old ladies and the handicapped.

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

ah but tis a slippery slope, micro stakes is a gateway drug

[degenaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Men the wife beater

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[Brad1970]

[ QUOTE ]
For me this poses a dilemma. The truth is I've struggled the better part of my existence with mental illness and have a life chock full of failure and under achievement to show for it. I will spare this forum the details mostly because too many in it are incapable of understanding or empathizing with humility much less caring about anyone other than themselves. Suffices to say I've been hungry for a good long while for some sense of affirmation through accomplishment and I'm rather limited in the things I can do to achieve this. According to Social Security I'm actually 'disabled', incapable of holding down a regular income generating occupation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm...you sound like a lazy, out of work bum living off of my tax dollars because you're "disabled"...*wink* *wink*

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
I promise that microstakes internet poker will not magically turn you into an evil person who is constantly looking to angleshoot old ladies and the handicapped.

[/ QUOTE ]

But it helps.

[chicagoY]

Brian Townsend.