I value bet

[bassLine]

Villain is spewing hard. Going to war with bottom pair, making heroic J, Q high calldowns.
CO is passive w marginal hands, very loose preflop.

Is the flop raise standard? If it were HU i´d be more inclined to call down (usually), but this 3 way pots come so often I opted to start playing them more aggressive because I´m no longer racing with 6,7 outs.

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6.5SB, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, CO folds, BB calls.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5.25BB, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7.25BB, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets

[BigBadBabar]

i could check behind on the river i think
or check behind on turn and call riv bet

[bassLine]

Just for the kicks i´ll post his stats .

170 hands
VPiP 83

Went to SD 54
Won at SD 36

AF 1.8 (Flop, turn=1.6 &amp; river =2,6)

[bobhalford]

Here my default play is to check behind on the turn (I hate getting check-raised here) and call a river bet. If you decide to bet the turn, I think checking behind on the river is the best play (sucks getting c/r there too) unless you really feel like there is value in this bet. I think that is a "had to be there" kind of decision.

[europlayer]

i see two lines here:

1. raise flop, check behind turn, call river
2. raise flop, bet turn, take free sd

like posted above!

[bassLine]

At the time I thought he was betting because it is fun to bluff at paired boards.
Then he check/calls the turn. Maybe he has a pair, he is looking to pair up on the river or is value calling with
A/K high?
It is difficult to put him on a range here, but I bet because
a) he is willing to call with unpaired cards
b) it is fun to (thin) value bet paired boards.

I´m not sure the river bet had enough value. And as stated
[ QUOTE ]
(I hate getting check-raised here)

sucks getting c/r there too)

[/ QUOTE ]

[TheWunderkind]

you think he calls you with a better hand more then 50% of the Time?Then yes you should bet &gt; i wouldnt

i basiclly take the freeshowdown line here

[Gurravasa]

I think the stats and reads you have on villain easily could affect your play in an adverse way in this hand. Yes he is an idiot, but even idiots can hit flops. And idiots can also call from BB with high PP. Idiots also gets kicks from raising the river with a monster, since they like the feeling that they've tricked through every street. I would take the check turn, call river line here. I don't want to give him any chance to checkraise a monster, and I want to give him the chance to bluff with J-high on river.

[bassLine]

According to Pokerstove AsKd has 40% (ugh, not what I was hoping for)equity on the river against a hand is going get called by. Any ace, king or pair.

I see the merits on checking the turn with the intention of calling a river bet. Raising if we hit and posting about what to do against 3 bet.

It seems this play leaves us more room to play poker. It looks like a win-win proposition [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img].

Once villain checks the turn he either made the mistake of not betting a pair (we win)or is about to bet out (correctly?) as a bluff on the river with his worst hands which outnumber the made ones(we win again).

Thank you for the replies so far.

[Bruce D]

You only have to win this pot (when he calls) 1 in 8 times to make this river bet +EV. If he is laggy enough to call with AJ AT or A9 you have 24 combos that you beat. You haven't made any reads about check raises, so I would fold to a checkraise if I have never seen him c/r before.

What range will villian start with in the BB? If its any two cards, then perhaps a check is in order as he could have 2x, a badly played 5x, or an even worse played 8x. I can see any pp less than nine playing like this. Discounting 22, and 55, that leaves 33,44,66,77,88 25 combos for pps.

Pokerstove has it like this...

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

343 games 0.005 secs 68,600 games/sec

Board: Qd Qs 2h 5c 8s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 24.490% 24.49% 00.00% 84 0.00 { AsKd }
Hand 1: 75.510% 75.51% 00.00% 259 0.00 { 77-66, 44-33, AJs-A2s, K5s, K2s, J5s, J2s, T5s, T2s, 95s, 92s, 85s, 82s, 75s, 72s, 65s, 62s, 53s+, 42s, 32s, AQo-A2o, K5o, K2o, J5o, J2o, T5o, T2o, 95o, 92o, 85o, 82o, 75o, 72o, 65o, 62o, 53o+, 42o, 32o }


---


If he will call with all these hands, then a bet is for value. If he will checkraise some of these hands, then its not so dry anymore.

I discounted 88 since that hand will clearly checkraise us and we can fold. Even with 88 the equity doesn't change.