20k foot view of school shooting

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
Estimates are that there are over 200,000,000 guns in the U.S.

[/ QUOTE ]

Man is our nation disturbing...

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Estimates are that there are over 200,000,000 guns in the U.S.

[/ QUOTE ]

Man is our nation disturbing...

[/ QUOTE ]
And yet, less than half a million are used in violent crimes. That's a quarter of a percent.
source

[revots33]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Arming people to stop gun crime is like starting a war to create peace. It will never work.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe so but getting rid of guns is as likely as eliminating war, so I think discussion should focus on more practical solutions.

For ex Australia's very tough gun regulations enacted in 1997 have helped greatly reduce gun violence in that country.

I think this approach makes more sense than arming college faculty with handguns so they can fight back against the guns that are so easy for crazed students to get.

[nef]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Arming people to stop gun crime is like starting a war to create peace. It will never work.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe so but getting rid of guns is as likely as eliminating war, so I think discussion should focus on more practical solutions.

For ex Australia's very tough gun regulations enacted in 1997 have helped greatly reduce gun violence in that country.

I think this approach makes more sense than arming college faculty with handguns so they can fight back against the guns that are so easy for crazed students to get.

[/ QUOTE ]

HALF a billion dollars spent buying back hundreds of thousands of guns after the Port Arthur massacre had no effect on the homicide rate, says a study published in an influential British journal.

The report by two Australian academics, published in the British Journal of Criminology, said statistics gathered in the decade since Port Arthur showed gun deaths had been declining well before 1996 and the buyback of more than 600,000 mainly semi-automatic rifles and pump-action shotguns had made no difference in the rate of decline.

Australian gun laws has no effect on murder rate

[JOHNY CA$H]

Um... how about you don't allow people to carry firearms everywhere else in Virginia, and then the shooter never gains access to a gun to begin with?

[JOHNY CA$H]

[ QUOTE ]
Dropped in on politics because of recent events, and have a few quick thoughts:

- the main argument of the pro-gun posters seems to be that if more citizens were armed, they could stop more crime from happening. The main problem with this is of course that you are essentially giving your citizens permission to shoot and kill each other, based on personal judgement. I don't know if that's a situation you want to be in.

- a lot of people are saying something to the effect of: if we outlaw guns, only the outlaws will have guns. What they fail to see is that the "law obiding citizens" speak of turn into the evil villains themselves sometimes. Girl cheats on guy, guy shoots girl + lover. College student returns home unexpected, dad shoots him because he thinks it's a burglar. Guy goes from party-animal to drug user to broke junkie and starts holding up drugstores...

It almost seems that this is a common mistake you Americans make: to divide the world into "evil states" that are part of an "axis of evil", where "terrorists" live, while "criminals" are making your streets unsafe. It's all just people. People make mistakes. There is no "good" and "evil", only a society with a culture that creates both, and where all people have the capacity for both.

When people have guns at hand when they make these mistakes, the consequences get worse.

Arming people to stop gun crime is like starting a war to create peace. It will never work.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo.

I think rather than whether we should arm students or not, a more important question is: why does society create people willing to walk into a school and shoot 30 people before killing themselves?

[JOHNY CA$H]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dropped in on politics because of recent events, and have a few quick thoughts:

- the main argument of the pro-gun posters seems to be that if more citizens were armed, they could stop more crime from happening. The main problem with this is of course that you are essentially giving your citizens permission to shoot and kill each other, based on personal judgement. I don't know if that's a situation you want to be in.

[/ QUOTE ]

This line of thinking is so authoritarian that it's frightening. Since I don't actively intervene to prevent you from having gasoline and styrofoam in your house, I am giving you permission to make napalm and use it to burn your neighbor's house down.

Wow.

Of course, the real fallacy here is assuming that some bureaucrat even has a legitimate right to determine if I may have item X in the first place.

[ QUOTE ]
- a lot of people are saying something to the effect of: if we outlaw guns, only the outlaws will have guns. What they fail to see is that the "law obiding citizens" speak of turn into the evil villains themselves sometimes. Girl cheats on guy, guy shoots girl + lover. College student returns home unexpected, dad shoots him because he thinks it's a burglar. Guy goes from party-animal to drug user to broke junkie and starts holding up drugstores...

[/ QUOTE ]

You *might* wake up tomorrow and do something "bad" or "stupid" - so we should take you into protective custody now. Just in case. Think of the children.

[ QUOTE ]
Arming people to stop gun crime is like starting a war to create peace. It will never work.

[/ QUOTE ]

Luckily, nobody here is advocating arming people. DUCY?

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude. Your analysis of his post makes NO sense. It's like you're reading a different post.

[JOHNY CA$H]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For the statement: "if only some armed citizens were around when this shooter started killing people, they could have stopped him" to be true, you have to give people permission to carry guns and use them when their judgement tells them that it is correct to do so.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who has to give this permission?

How is it this person's responsibility and privelege to decide whether to give this permission?

Do I need permission to eat a banana? Talk to my neighbor? Invite friends over to watch the game?

Where do I apply for the appropriate permits?


[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You *might* wake up tomorrow and do something "bad" or "stupid"

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that's why I would NEVER bring a gun into the house where I live with my family.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you have heavy blunt objects? Knives? Glass windows?


[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Luckily, nobody here is advocating arming people. DUCY?

[/ QUOTE ]

A lot of people are advocating arming people. I see a lot of posters quoting statistics of crime going down vs gun owners going up or anecdotes of armed bystanders who killed a crazy shooter or simply saying stupid [censored] like: "If you want my gun, you'll have to kill me first."

A lot of these point to the same philosophy of: let's all get guns and shoot dead every mother [censored] who tries to [censored] with us, our family, our property or them stars and stripes.

[/ QUOTE ]

None of this points to any advocacy of arming people. I can choose to get a gun for myself without requiring you to get one. I have not seen one person advocate a policy where you would be compelled to possess a firearm.


[ QUOTE ]
All of this is unnecessary and just highlights your lack of respect for this discussion and looks pretty arrogant as well. (not to mention stupid, but feel free to delete this part if it's in violation of the Politics constitution)

[/ QUOTE ]

But you telling me that I'm too stupid or evil to make decisions for myself isn't arrogant, unnecessary, or disrespectful?

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude. You're high.

[pvn]

[ QUOTE ]
Dude. You're high.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh. Now it all makes sense. Yep, you guys are right, I'm wrong. Obviously!

[AlexM]

[ QUOTE ]
Arming people to stop gun crime is like starting a war to create peace. It will never work.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's worked great for Switzerland. It also worked quite well in the American West.