Serious Discussion about Poker Bots, PokerTracker, HUDs, etc.

[jogsxyz]

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PT has all the data a bot would use.

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No, it really doesn't. See my post further up.

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I did. And just did again -- what information would be needed that PT doesn't store? ...since it stores everything. It's just handling the data and parsing it for your own information, patterns, and probabilities.

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PT makes it really hard for you to analysis the data. To export the data PT puts it into a huge EXCEL file. There's millions of bytes of memory used on your computer and very little actual data. Each 0 and 1 requires an entire cell in the Excel file. Just impossible to study the info.
Mostly PT is only good for recognizing who's tight and who's loose. Not worth much for in depth analysis of style.

[Dima2000123]

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Collusion aside, I can understand how demeaning some might find it to play against pieces of software, but why worry about it? A bot will never play any better than its programmer, and people like Aba or Durr have better things to do than write algorithms. Any 2+2er who wouldn't play any bot heads-up for rolls serously underestimates his skills imho.

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I disagree on two key points. Bots don't have to be able to beat the best players to kill online poker, they just have to be able to take the money from the fish. Bots would take money from the fish more efficiently than any 20-tabling Internet pro. You can't have poker without fish.

I also disagree about the bots being as good as their creators. Good bots may have learning algorithms which automatically adjust to the profitable situations. Even if you can't make a learning bot, the bot would have such a huge hand history that even a poor player can look at its PT database and figure out the leaks and adjust it accordingly.

[ShakeZula06]

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I'm still not hearing the difference between them that makes them on different moral levels.


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Poker sites T&C's allow one, but doesn't allow the other. That simple.

[ShakeZula06]

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If I used my poker and programming skills to make a bot and then used my bot to make money for me, is this really wrong?

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Yes. You explicitly agreed to the site's rules when you sat down at the table. You are deliberately breaking those rules.
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Technically you programmed the bot, so you have given it the process to decide how to play the hand... you could view the bot as an extension of you playing poker.

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You don't play tiltless poker 24/7. A bot does.

[ShakeZula06]

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PT and HUDs are acceptable because the poker sites allow them. Bots are not allowed because poker sites do not allow them.

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This is an argument from authority which is at best weak.

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No it's not, an argument from authority would be like "<guy that knows a lot about morality> says X, so X". When you sign up for a site you explicitly agree to their terms and conditions. Using PT or a HUD doesn't violate those terms, using a bot does.

[cogger]

Define "PT" and HUD so I have a better idea of what your talking about. So much shorthand nowadays. Not all of us are aware of the lingo.

[Artsemis]

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I'm still not hearing the difference between them that makes them on different moral levels.


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Poker sites T&C's allow one, but doesn't allow the other. That simple.

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Read the thread, I already responded to the exact same comment. This is a moral question, not rules.

[Artsemis]

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Define "PT" and HUD so I have a better idea of what your talking about. So much shorthand nowadays. Not all of us are aware of the lingo.

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PT = Poker Tracker

[Hoi Polloi]

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Mostly PT is only good for recognizing who's tight and who's loose. Not worth much for in depth analysis of style.

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You need to refresher course in PT. The position tab alone gives you a ton of information of what a player's tendencies are by seat including hand ranges, etc. To be able to process that in real-time as the hand is going on would allow for stronger reads, etc. You really underestimate the power of PT and the data set.

[Hoi Polloi]

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Read the thread, I already responded to the exact same comment. This is a moral question, not rules.

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It is an ethical question, not a moral one.