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#21
04-19-2007, 04:14 PM
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Re: AC Question: Labor Unions
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] From what I remember, Walmart will simply close a store if it unionizes. There are definitely protections on firing unionized workers, its just a matter of how often they are ignored or worked around through loopholes. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, if you work in one of those stores I am sure you have made enough mistakes to get fired but they generally ignore petty stuff. But if you start trying to unionize they will remember those times you came in two minutes late or forgot to stock the shelves the correct way...they won't fire you for being a union guy, they'll just find something else as an official reason. [/ QUOTE ] I don't see what difference it makes. If I want to end my business relationship with another party, I don't need to justify it to anyone. Should the guy who mows my yard have to present a "suitable justification" if he decides to no longer mow my yard? Should employees have to have a "good reason" to quit their jobs? [/ QUOTE ] That should depend on a contract between an employer and an employee. If a worker had an expectation that he would not be fired without a cause, firing the worker without a cause should cost employer. And the reverse should also go. 
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#22
04-19-2007, 04:23 PM
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Re: AC Question: Labor Unions
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] From what I remember, Walmart will simply close a store if it unionizes. There are definitely protections on firing unionized workers, its just a matter of how often they are ignored or worked around through loopholes. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, if you work in one of those stores I am sure you have made enough mistakes to get fired but they generally ignore petty stuff. But if you start trying to unionize they will remember those times you came in two minutes late or forgot to stock the shelves the correct way...they won't fire you for being a union guy, they'll just find something else as an official reason. [/ QUOTE ] I don't see what difference it makes. If I want to end my business relationship with another party, I don't need to justify it to anyone. Should the guy who mows my yard have to present a "suitable justification" if he decides to no longer mow my yard? Should employees have to have a "good reason" to quit their jobs? [/ QUOTE ] That should depend on a contract between an employer and an employee. If a worker had an expectation that he would not be fired without a cause, firing the worker without a cause should cost employer. And the reverse should also go. [/ QUOTE ] I have an expectation that my boss would give me a $100,000 raise next year. He didn't give me one. Can I sue him?
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#23
04-19-2007, 04:41 PM
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Re: AC/AS Question: Labor Unions
[ QUOTE ]
In a society where force cannot be used to prevent any form of unionization or any noncoercive union activities, wouldn't the majority of the power in most industries shift to the workers pretty quickly? [/ QUOTE ] Right now we have a situation where the laws are set up to help the unions at the cost of the owners: 1. It is illegal to hire someone and contract with them that they won't join a union. 2. It is illegal to fire someone if they join a union. 3. A blind eye is turned to the often illegal behavior of the unions (eg destruction of property, intimidation, and sometimes violence). If these laws were gone, the unions would get weaker and it would be a good thing.
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#24
04-19-2007, 04:45 PM
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Re: AC/AS Question: Labor Unions
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If these laws were gone, the unions would get weaker and it would be a good thing. [/ QUOTE ] Besides your propagandized third point, why would this be a particularly good thing or bad thing or anything? If all laborers get together and unionize, is this not just a market outcome, which can never be bad?
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#25
04-19-2007, 04:50 PM
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Re: AC/AS Question: Labor Unions
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] If these laws were gone, the unions would get weaker and it would be a good thing. [/ QUOTE ] Besides your propagandized third point, why would this be a particularly good thing or bad thing or anything? If all laborers get together and unionize, is this not just a market outcome, which can never be bad? [/ QUOTE ] Monopolies are generally bad for the majority for the benefit of a minority.
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#27
04-19-2007, 04:53 PM
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Re: AC/AS Question: Labor Unions
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] If these laws were gone, the unions would get weaker and it would be a good thing. [/ QUOTE ] Besides your propagandized third point, why would this be a particularly good thing or bad thing or anything? If all laborers get together and unionize, is this not just a market outcome, which can never be bad? [/ QUOTE ] Monopolies are generally bad for the majority for the benefit of a minority. [/ QUOTE ] The majority of people are laborers and do not own enterprises. So if literally everyone--or a large majority--unionized, this would just be a market outcome. Supply of labor would shift left for every wage and raise equilibrium. This would benefit the majority.
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#28
04-19-2007, 04:53 PM
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Re: AC/AS Question: Labor Unions
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] is this not just a market outcome, which can never be bad? [/ QUOTE ] Market outcomes can be bad! Stop repeating this nonsensical interpretation of AC. [/ QUOTE ] Such as?
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#29
04-19-2007, 04:55 PM
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Re: AC/AS Question: Labor Unions
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] is this not just a market outcome, which can never be bad? [/ QUOTE ] Market outcomes can be bad! Stop repeating this nonsensical interpretation of AC. [/ QUOTE ] Such as? [/ QUOTE ] Sorry, I'm not the one making ridiculous accusations. I have nothing to prove.
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#30
04-19-2007, 04:57 PM
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Re: AC/AS Question: Labor Unions
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] is this not just a market outcome, which can never be bad? [/ QUOTE ] Market outcomes can be bad! Stop repeating this nonsensical interpretation of AC. [/ QUOTE ] Such as? [/ QUOTE ] Sorry, I'm not the one making ridiculous accusations. I have nothing to prove. [/ QUOTE ] Markets give the people what they want. So when can a market solution be bad? I'm legitimately asking. This isn't some drawn out troll like you seem to think it is.
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