Live 6-12 KK

[leykis]

Hero in in SB with K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

UTG is TAG, playing too tight so far for this game. So he is not someone I would really even play when he raised without a very good holding. Perhaps something like KK would do [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

MP1 has been at the table for about 2 hands and is a complete donkey. I knew this before he even sat. You know how you can sometimes just tell. lol

So on to the hand,

UTG Raises, MP1 calls, Hero Three-bets, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

FLOP: (9 sb's)

J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Hero Bets, UTG Folds, MP1 Calls

Turn: (5.5 BB)

J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (puke)

Hero Bets, MP1 Raises, Hero Calls

River: (9.5BB)

10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Hero Bets, MP1 calls

Does anyone fold the turn or not bet the river?

[Chino987]

I assume you are folding to a river raise?

[Tiny TBone]

I like calling the turn raise against this type of player

River I probably check/call. I don't think there's any chance mp1 is going to lay down his hand for a bet, and despite his donkishness I think there's a good chance we're behind.

[leykis]

Yes, I am folding to a river raise. I thought that betting was better than C/C on the outside chance (granted probably <1%) that he will fold the best hand... and of course he can only raise with a hand that beats me.

So I guess I know the river play is right, but does anyone fold the turn?

This pot is not that big at that point and I am %95 sure he has the Jack.

[fuzz66]

by folding the best hand im assuming you mean hes folding a jack, wich, IMO is never. i c/c here.

[leykis]

[ QUOTE ]
by folding the best hand im assuming you mean hes folding a jack, wich, IMO is never. i c/c here.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are going to c/c anyway I think betting is a better play simply because it has 0 risk and some reward. By some reward I mean:

1) He may fold three Jacks. I know it will almost never happen but almost never is different than never. It may be 1/5000 but thats still not never.

2) He may have been bluffing with an OESD hit a pair of tens on the river and make a crying call. Also a long shot but you never know.

3) It costs the same as a c/c

If he bluff raises the river...well then he deserves the pot. I think that bluff raising the river will occur less often then MP1 folding three Jacks.

Of course if the river is not a 10 or a K then c/c is the only play on the river.

About the only reason I can think of to c/c the river with this board is that MP1 may bluff the river and I can pick it off.

Regardless, I think that both plays are fine I just lean a little more towards betting the river.

I guess my real concern is on the turn beacuse I find myself in this spot often. The pot is medium small and I feel I am beaten at this point and drawing to two outs. Is it an automatic call down for everyone here at this limit?

I think that the play is -EV in these spots. With a read of three jacks for my opponent he has me badly beaten most of the time. The times that I am not don't make up for the times I spend two big bets calling down. For a pot of this size (10BB) my opponent has to be bluffing about 1 in every 6 times for this play to be profitable. No?

[TheHip41]

no one is folding a better hand on the river. You don't beat much on the river.

I'd just c/c.

[zuluking]

[ QUOTE ]
no one is folding a better hand on the river. You don't beat much on the river.

I'd just c/c.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Arbitrage]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that bluff raising the river will occur less often then MP1 folding three Jacks.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
MP1 has been at the table for about 2 hands and is a complete donkey.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he bluff raises the river ALOT more than he folds 3 Jacks, if he is the donkey you say he is. I c/c, b/c you could catch a bluff.

[leykis]

Thanks for the feedback so far. So with the river play taken care of, am I behind so often here on the turn that paying two BB to call down is unprofitable or not? If not why not?