trying to find more spots for value on the river....

[thepizzlefosho]

[ QUOTE ]
if u raise the turn ur folding to a 3bet rite? And after u raise the turn what rivers would u bet and which would u ck behind?

[/ QUOTE ]
If I took that line I would fold to a 3-bet on the turn.

If I raised the turn instead of the river I would check behind on a 5,7,8, or T and maybe a J. I bet everything else. Not sure about the J.

[jt1]

I'm not folding to a turn 3-bet because villain isn't passive and possible 3-bets include 86 and 97 and a 7 with two clubs. It seems very unlikely at 3/6 but hero's read indicates that raise/folding is poor against this guy.

I bet most rivers if I still have the lead. Obviously a T and a 5 would scare me but I think betting would be better. Bet/call or bet/fold - damn, I hate poker, probably bet/call. An 8 or a 6 is also a bit scary but still a bet is better.

[danzasmack]

Ok so he is an aggro player who will fire both streets with a draw. If flop range = turn range = river range then there really is nothing to discuss on this hand. You seem pretty hellbent on defending the river raise here so I'm not going to try and change your opinion. If this is your read then fine this has to be the best way to play it because you guarantee 2 bets from a draw and a 3rd from worse hands. There simply is no other way to play it. Game over.

But my standard line against a villain like this, who IME does not fire 3 streets (if he does he is basically spewing, he needs you to have exactly JT/QT) is to raise this turn or 3-bet the flop. I'm checking behind scary rivers and gonna bet pretty much every other one.

[jt1]

[ QUOTE ]
But my standard line against a villain like this, who IME does not fire 3 streets (if he does he is basically spewing, he needs you to have exactly JT/QT) is to raise this turn or 3-bet the flop. I'm checking behind scary rivers and gonna bet pretty much every other one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, waiting for the river is valid because he probably doesn't have a draw. Unfortunately, we don't know how often villain showsdown. Obviously, I lean towards betting when in doubt but with this guys stats, checking a scary river is very viable. One reason, I'd bet is because villain is a thinking enough player to strongly consider leading should he hit the river. Once he checks, as we all know, he's less likely to have that feared hand.

[thepizzlefosho]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok so he is an aggro player who will fire both streets with a draw. If flop range = turn range = river range then there really is nothing to discuss on this hand. You seem pretty hellbent on defending the river raise here so I'm not going to try and change your opinion. If this is your read then fine this has to be the best way to play it because you guarantee 2 bets from a draw and a 3rd from worse hands. There simply is no other way to play it. Game over.

But my standard line against a villain like this, who IME does not fire 3 streets (if he does he is basically spewing, he needs you to have exactly JT/QT) is to raise this turn or 3-bet the flop. I'm checking behind scary rivers and gonna bet pretty much every other one.

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry if I came off as a douche, not trying to shut out all debate. I feel like the river raise is best, but I posted it because I didn't know if a turn raise is better. I was disagreeing with your analysis because I felt like it didn't take account the read into place. But even with a read I think there are arguments for a turn raise like you posted above.

I'm still a newb on here and appreciating the insight of the vets, so not trying to step on toes just get some debate going.

[danzasmack]

i never called you a douche and i didn't mean to come off that way. no toes are stepped on, relax. just letting you realize that you knew what was best in this hand and did it. so just post it that way and people will find it interesting.

[thepizzlefosho]

[ QUOTE ]
i never called you a douche and i didn't mean to come off that way. no toes are stepped on, relax. just letting you realize that you knew what was best in this hand and did it. so just post it that way and people will find it interesting.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] totally relaxed thanks to my boring job [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]. Lets say this guy is a fairly standard TAG so the read is a little less important. If you raise the turn are you calling down to a 3-bet or folding?

[danzasmack]

folding is for fish

[thepizzlefosho]

[ QUOTE ]
folding is for fish

[/ QUOTE ]

I lol'ed.