PS 6.5: Wickss bubble hand....Cooperate or Donate?

[durron597]

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Pushing ATC is clearly best. Durron was saying folding>calling, which I think is wrong, but whatever... he's right in that there is a bigger difference between raising and calling, than folding and calling.

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i was probably wrong in this specific hand, but like i said raising is so unbelievably much better than both of the other two options that it doesn't matter

[durron597]

LOL i didn't click on OP's link until now, that was the thread haha

edit: the relevant zeejustin post

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Keeping him alive is not worth 1000 chips.

Yes, I am well aware that your EV on this hand is not 1000 chips, but that is still the relevant number here. Do you see why?

Ok, enough David Sklansky. If you call and lose, it's the same thing as if you would have folded, except for that 1 irrelevent chip. Therefore, we can ignore the possibility of you losing, and only examine when you win.

When you win, you win your opponents 500 chips, and you get to keep your 500. Thats 1000 chips.

If you think keeping those 2 players alive is worth 10% of all the chips in play, you are crazy.

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the bottom line is you have to estimate what number that is when deciding whether to call or fold

[wickss]

This explains a lot. Particularly my ATs hand and the SB shove w/ ATC.

I had a tight bubble once with 3 players with ~2000 each and I had ~6000. I shoved every hand until they each had about one blind. Then I put them out in three consecutive hands. No one wanted to play a hand until the cash. I was able to amass 90% of the chips because the bubble was still alive.

[Insty]

what durron said.

[billxo1b]

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Very Standard Fold


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thanks for the link. it is quite fascinating to read those arguments by SnG legends[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ebepse]

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Very Standard Fold


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thanks for the link. it is quite fascinating to read those arguments by SnG legends

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i love the first response in that

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At an extremely tight and passive table i might actually fold this, but on a standard 10+1 table, which is what i currently play, there is no way im folding. If SB doubles up here through your fold he will be up to 1k and the mid stacks dont't have enough chips to confortably wait him out.

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is this hilarious or is it just me?

[Shillx]

It is pretty easy to prove the pushing PF isn't the best play (with most hands). In fact calling PF is much better as long as everyone plays perfectly pre-flop.

Your should get called by like 17% of your push range. So what you do is push your best hands and call with everything else. When you miss the flop you bet (say with 32 on a K74 board) and get him to fold. By playing it this way you have a better shot at doubling up the short stack w/ less investment. And if he thinks you are trying to punk him PF he will be walking into the bear trap when he calls with say A8o.

edited

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
It is pretty easy to prove the pushing PF isn't the best play (with most hands). In fact calling PF is much better as long as everyone plays perfectly pre-flop.

Your should get called by like 17% of your push range. So what you do is push your best hands and call with everything else. When you miss the flop you bet (say with 32 on a K74 board) and get him to fold. By playing it this way you have a better shot at doubling up the short stack w/ less investment. And if he thinks you are trying to punk him PF he will be walking into the bear trap when he calls with say A8o.

edited

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this is terrible

i'll explain why if ppl want but i'll let someone else give it a shot

[JACKTEN]

Im no pro, but keeping the bubble alive by folding to the lowstack for me is the most fun thing in SNGs, it usually infuriates the other two stacks as well. Usually get people typing collusion??? wtf??? etc etc into chat. Same thing when someone is sitting out, people lose the plot when you fold to the sitter outter in order to keep on abusing the other stacks blinds! Tis great fun

[abarber]

FTW - I fold here if I have good cards, while I push when I have bad ones (or ones that fare badly against the short stacks "range". This is the best way to preserve this bubble, which if I might add, couldn't be better for pwning.