If you see your opponents hand and he has AA

[bluefish]

what would you do? if lets say hes UTG and he raises... what would you smooth call with?
(i got this question from donkeytest.com) and am a little bit curious as to an answer... do you fold any two cause you know your beat or if you have close to the correct odds to play, do you call?

[Sherman]

[ QUOTE ]
what would you do? if lets say hes UTG and he raises... what would you smooth call with?
(i got this question from donkeytest.com) and am a little bit curious as to an answer... do you fold any two cause you know your beat or if you have close to the correct odds to play, do you call?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on how deep the stacks are. If they are deep enough, you should call w/any two cards. Hell, if they are deep enough, you should call with any one card.

[bmk67]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what would you do? if lets say hes UTG and he raises... what would you smooth call with?
(i got this question from donkeytest.com) and am a little bit curious as to an answer... do you fold any two cause you know your beat or if you have close to the correct odds to play, do you call?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on how deep the stacks are. If they are deep enough, you should call w/any two cards. Hell, if they are deep enough, you should call with any one card.

[/ QUOTE ]

There was more to this question than the OP indicated.

Stacks were very deep, 25000 BB deep. And one critical bit of information that was left out was that not only did you see his hand, he KNEW you saw his hand, therefore allowing you play optimally against him.

Possible answers were various ranges to reraise with (which were all clearly incorrect), fold any two, call with any two, or call with any pair or suited connectors.

I initially thought calling with any two was the correct answer (given that stacks were super-deep, giving excellent implied odds), however, on further reflection, there were a couple of things that were missing from the equation that didn't make it such a simple answer.

- The raiser knows we saw his hand, and that we can play optimally against him, and he may not pay us off if we flop big. Our implied odds are not as good as we may think.

- We have no reads to know whether or not the raiser will get out of line with his hand. Likewise we don't know if he'll fold to a bluff on a scary board. Both factors put our implied odds in doubt.

- Villain won't know if we're bluffing (since he knows that we know what his hand is), and may pay off deep enough to make an implied odds play correct.

However, the stacks are SO deep in this case, I'm thinking it hardly matters. If we can get villain to pay off a couple percent of his stack when we hit (or fold to a bluff) even half the time, it's worth it to call with any two.

[Mingdu]

call any two

[dchz]

the question in the donkey test you are referring to , i believe the answer is ATC,

however, i don't recall the last time i was playing in that situation because you are rarely ever that deep (most likely a live cash game)

it is not a MTT problem, when stacks are short, the question is entirely different

Does he know we know that he knows though?

[Jake M.]

I would call with any two cards here assuming you are deep enough. Someone mentioned 25000 BB's??!! What?! How often are you 25000 BB deep? Anyways. Say you are in a 20/40 NL game and the Villian raises to 160. You look down at a small pocket pair. I would use my general rule of thumb of you have to be able to make 10x his raise. So 160x10=1600. He would need to be at least 1600 deep to call with a pocket pair. If you had a suited connector, I go with a 20x rule of thumb so 3200 deep. If you have any two cards, I feel that you need to be at least 25x deep ($4000) deep. Though this is just a rule of thumb, it may not always hold truth. If I am playing against a professional poker player who I know will not get out of hand with just 1 pair of Aces after the flop, I honestly may not even take the flop with him. If I did, we would need to be CONSIDERABLY deep. I know that he is not going broke with just 1 pair then I will not be able to make enough money off him in the long run for that play to be profittable. Though if some random idiot who will go all in with red Aces on a 4 club board, I may even lessen my rule of thumb.

[gholizad]

But he is not going to stack off once we hit if he knows we saw his hand. So I dont think we have the right implied odds to call with ATC.

[Sherman]

[ QUOTE ]
But he is not going to stack off once we hit if he knows we saw his hand. So I dont think we have the right implied odds to call with ATC.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well if he isn't going to stack off then he is just going to fold right? So...just call with any two.

[bucktotal]

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Does he know we know that he knows though?

[/ QUOTE ]

if i read it correctly,

i believe he does know we know that he knows.