Don Imus

[HeavilyArmed]

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Lets suppose you get your way (lol) and it is demonstrated beyond reasoable doubt that blacks have something genetic that makes them different. What do you propose we do?


[/ QUOTE ]This is the key. We adjust our expectations and goals.

For example we might be able to finally admit that more marginal funding for mostly black schools benefits society less than more marginal funding for gifted programs for all races. There are dozens more. Sadly, none will occur.

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Nice - you managed to seamlessly segue from a claim of blacks being intrinsically more violent to insinuating blacks being intrinsically less intelligent. All without posting a shread of real evidence. And now that you've declared this group less worthy, your solution is to marginalize them. Congratulations, you're a racist!

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I've been here long enough to understand the overwhelming need of the lightly educated young to label me a racist. Welcome to a long list of not-too-careful readers of my material.

Note that this was a hypothetical question. Your turn - "Lets suppose you get your way (lol) and it is demonstrated beyond reasoable doubt that blacks have something genetic that makes them different. What do you propose we do?"

Further assume that blacks are proven to be genetically less intelligent and more violent. What's your enlightened plan for society with this new proof?

Make it intelligent or buh bye baby.

[EricOF]

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Is it possible to think that both what Imus said and what rappers say is equally stupid?


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If so, how does one avoid being lumped in as a hypocrite by seemingly every single Imus supporter who uses the "well rappers say it too" argument ?

[/ QUOTE ] Say you think the rappers who say such things should be fired from their labels and shouldn't be played on the radio or MTV, and DJ's who play their songs should be fired, etc. etc.


[/ QUOTE ] But as you probably know you're more likely to run into "free speech" or "just change the radio station" or "just monitor what your kids listen to" arguments here. Be interesting to see if you don't.


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The difference between a guy who had his own talk radio show, doing political commentary to boot, and a rapper who gets his record played on the radio, should be extremely obvious. You are of course welcome to protest to your local radio station if you think they are playing something you find offensive. But obviously the two are not going to be held to the exact same standard. Of course, "rappers in general" are not being accused of being racially offensive (yes, I am sure you can find some who are, that's not the point), while Imus is. Duh.

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I can think of many differences. I just can't think of any that matter. The phrase "rappers in general" was put in quotation marks but this phrase wasn't mentioned as an appropriate object of non-hypocritical protest so it has no relevance. Obviously the "some who are" is what is being referred to here.

[West]

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I've been here long enough to understand the overwhelming need of the lightly educated young to label me a racist. Welcome to a long list of not-too-careful readers of my material.


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Implying that I am young and uneducated won't make it so, sorry. In any case, our respective posts continue to speak for themselves.

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Note that this was a hypothetical question.

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Yes, it was: "Lets suppose you get your way [note, that would be you, Heavily Armed] (lol) and it is demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt that blacks have something genetic that makes them different. What do you propose we do?"

Let's review some of your statements in this thread. Could I be misrepresenting your position? Do you not really believe that blacks are intrinsically more violent than everyone else?

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Jump right out and state it honestly: Controling for income, blacks are very much more likely to be violent criminals and somewhat more likely to be property criminals.

It's not even close.


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I simply made a comment based on available data. I make it for the benefit of the 90% posters here that will not be exposed to such inconvenient statistics throughout the course of American 'higher' education.

There are so very many stereotypes one could investigate but at the root of many one will find some observable behavioral correlate for the group so characterized. Again, inconvenient.


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Unsupported but totally supportable.

Do the research and your eyes might open. No, you won't because you'd be uncomfortable in the end.


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More research than I'm willing to do.

I'd guess that blacks would go from six times as likely to commit violent crime as whites to twice as likely when you control for income and parental status.

No group I know of would fund such research since there's no upside for the PC crowd, only uncomfortable recriminations.


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Maybe you should add yourself to your long list of not-too-careful readers of your material.

What you believe to be fact is crystal clear. And despite the fact that the discussion was specifically about race as it relates to crime and violence, when asked what you would propose be done if it was somehow proven that 'genetic' differences exist, you start talking about funding for mostly black schools - and anyone with any sense at all can tell you are actually now implying a genetic difference in intelligence, and are not talking about crime at all. To quote yourself, in poker we call this a tell.

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Your turn - "Lets suppose you get your way (lol) and it is demonstrated beyond reasoable doubt that blacks have something genetic that makes them different. What do you propose we do?"

Further assume that blacks are proven to be genetically less intelligent and more violent. What's your enlightened plan for society with this new proof?


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First of all, good luck proving the above. However, what I would definitely not do, is cut "marginal funding" for "mostly black schools". That is what truly makes your position racist.

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Make it intelligent or buh bye baby.

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Please feel free to go buh bye whenever you'd like.

[West]

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I can think of many differences. I just can't think of any that matter.

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It's very obvious what they are, and that they do 'matter'.

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The phrase "rappers in general" was put in quotation marks but this phrase wasn't mentioned as an appropriate object of non-hypocritical protest so it has no relevance. Obviously the "some who are" is what is being referred to here.

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When someone says "what rappers say" or "rappers say it too", who else are they referring to but "rappers in general"??

The "some who are" are actually NOT who is being referred to, because when I said "some who are", I was referring to hypothetical rappers being racially offensive. I think it's fairly obvious that the silly point being made about "rappers say it too" and "rappers who say such things" is either referring to phrases like "nappy headed hos" which obviously does not have the same racial context coming out of a rappers mouth (presuming they are black) as it does coming out of Imus' mouth, or, they are talking about the use of "hos" in general. The obvious difference there would be, rappers generally aren't referring to specific innocent women like Imus was, women who have done nothing whatsoever to deserve being called "hos".

By the way, I just happened to listen to the Imus Rutgers clip - I was kind of stunned to hear more in the clip that has been pretty much ignored in the media. After the "nappy headed hos" comment and while discussing how Tennessee is 'cuter' than Rutgers, one of Imus' side kicks (Bernard McGuirk - recall the story about him from the Wilbon article) makes reference to Spike Lee movie by calling the game "the Jigaboos vs the Wannabes", while Imus chuckles.

There just are no excuses for Imus.

[EricOF]

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When someone says "what rappers say" or "rappers say it too", who else are they referring to but "rappers in general"??

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I would think they were referring to the rappers who say it without actually bothering to name them specifically. It's just stupid to say that those who demand Imus to be fired can't be expected to do the same for rappers because "rappers in general" is too broad. It can not be logically inferred that anyone in this thread ever said that consistency demands that all rappers or even most rappers be treated similarly and you're just playing games to present this as some sort of impediment to someone asking that some of them be.

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I think it's fairly obvious that the silly point being made about "rappers say it too" and "rappers who say such things" is either referring to phrases like "nappy headed hos" which obviously does not have the same racial context coming out of a rappers mouth (presuming they are black) as it does coming out of Imus' mouth, or, they are talking about the use of "hos" in general. The obvious difference there would be, rappers generally aren't referring to specific innocent women like Imus was, women who have done nothing whatsoever to deserve being called "hos".

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Sorry, but the apportioning of permitted vocabulary by race has no merit (same racial context = lol). Neither does the ludicrous notion that rappers don't make derogatory comments aimed at specific individuals. Ah but you made sure to use the word "generally." You like to use this as an escape hatch it seems. Hrm, let's try this: radio disc jockeys don't "generally" say these things either, which obviously means there's no reason to single out Imus. Yeah, that works.

[HeavilyArmed]

As I note here often, it's much easier to attack me than to keep to the issue at hand. You're excused.

But you failed to offer any answer to the question and that was also expected. Buh bye.

[EricOF]

asdf

[West]

Buh bye

[West]

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I would think they were referring to the rappers who say it without actually bothering to name them specifically. It's just stupid to say that those who demand Imus to be fired can't be expected to do the same for rappers because "rappers in general" is too broad.

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That's not what I said. I already gave reasons why a radio show host and a rapper on a record will not necessarily be held to the same standard. They are obvious. You just choose to ignore them. But it doesn't matter, the issue is a red herring.

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It can not be logically inferred that anyone in this thread ever said that consistency demands that all rappers or even most rappers be treated similarly and you're just playing games to present this as some sort of impediment to someone asking that some of them be.

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I didn't say whatever it is above you are trying to say I said.

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Sorry, but the apportioning of permitted vocabulary by race has no merit (same racial context = lol).

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You pretty much have to be brain dead not to understand the fact that a black guy using the word n***** in conversation with another black guy does not have same connotations as a white guy using the same word. That's just the way it is. Similarly, Don Imus referring to a group of mostly black women as "nappy headed hos" does in fact have a different context simply because he is white.

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Neither does the ludicrous notion that rappers don't make derogatory comments aimed at specific individuals.

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I didn't say they didn't.

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Ah but you made sure to use the word "generally." You like to use this as an escape hatch it seems. Hrm, let's try this: radio disc jockeys don't "generally" say these things either, which obviously means there's no reason to single out Imus. Yeah, that works.

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You're not making any sense. No one inferring this argument has actually even bothered to try to give a specific example of a rapper they are so offended by. Maybe that's because they're just reaching for an excuse for Imus?

[EricOF]

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That's not what I said. I already gave reasons why a radio show host and a rapper on a record will not necessarily be held to the same standard. They are obvious. You just choose to ignore them. But it doesn't matter, the issue is a red herring.

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No, I call them what they are: [censored] excuses and double-standards without merit.

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You pretty much have to be brain dead not to understand the fact that a black guy using the word n***** in conversation with another black guy does not have same connotations as a white guy using the same word.

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You have to be brain-dead to accept it or any other Orwellian attempt divide permitted language by race.

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You're not making any sense. No one inferring this argument has actually even bothered to try to give a specific example of a rapper they are so offended by. Maybe that's because they're just reaching for an excuse for Imus?


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Ah that must be it. "Dumb Ass hooka ain't nothing but a dyke, suddenly I see some n.i.g.g.a.s. that I don't like." Must have been my imagination when I heard that. For the record, I couldn't care less about that. But neither could I care less about what Imus said. A comedian/DJ said something insulting. Boo hoo.