2/4 SB/BB theory question

[ladykiller]

My friend and I disagree with what to do on the flop. Hero is dealt K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in BB. Folds to SB who is a 30/24/3 raises to 14 and hero reraises to 44. Flop is 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
The question is that my friend recommends checking behind on the flop because villian is much more likely to cr hero than c/c and that hero would be behind villian's cr'ing range or when not behind, hero would be coinflipping on the flop. I think he should be betting flop and happily get it in on flop as villian many times will cr with hands that we dominate and checking behind flop will bring 1/2 the deck that will shut down our action. What say you?

[ClockWyze]

your friend is an idiot. you should slap the piss out of him.

[billyjex]

If you are "behind" his c/r range, there will be plenty in the pot to justfiy calling w/ your equity. And you probably wouldn't be behind since the dude is probably c/r all in anything that hit.

[RiverHebrew2]

Betting ~$60 and flatcalling a raise, then sticking the $ in on a safe turn is my preferred line. Your hand is strong and underrepped, but very vulnerable. Checking here will make you fold MANY turns he bets at. You do have the K of hearts, just as a backup. It's def best to bet here. You still have a solid hand if you're c/r, and you can simply fold a dangerous turn after flatcalling a flop.

[Pog0]

[ QUOTE ]
Betting ~$60 and flatcalling a raise, then sticking the $ in on a safe turn is my preferred line. Your hand is strong and underrepped, but very vulnerable. Checking here will make you fold MANY turns he bets at. You do have the K of hearts, just as a backup. It's def best to bet here. You still have a solid hand if you're c/r, and you can simply fold a dangerous turn after flatcalling a flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Flop: $84.

Villain checks, Hero bets $60, Villain raises to $200, Hero calls.

Turn ($484): Villain vets $156 all-in.

Why get to this spot and fold? Just stick it in on the flop if he doesn't.

[spino1i]

Your friend has no idea what he's talking about. KK happily gets it all in here in a battle of the blinds in a 3-bet pot.

Its not worth checking behind here and waiting to stack-off on a safe turn because you can too easily get bluffed out of the pot and its very easy for the villain to outdraw you.

[Poker879]

[ QUOTE ]
Your friend has no idea what he's talking about. KK happily gets it all in here in a battle of the blinds in a 3-bet pot.

Its not worth checking behind here and waiting to stack-off on a safe turn because you can too easily get bluffed out of the pot and its very easy for the villain to outdraw you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't this the very reason why checking behind would have some value. I'd be curious if someone ran pokerstove on villians possible checkraising range vs hero.

Hero's dominated: AA (unlikely), 66, 77, 88, 78, 68, 67, 910, 45,

Coin Flipping: Axs, 56, 57, 98, 97, any pair flush draw, 55, 99

Hero dominates: 44, 1010, JJ, QQ, A9, A8, any flush draw, feel free to add anything else that seems reasonable.

Plus, hero could call a bet if he had checked behind even on dangerous board if hero feels he's bluffing and villian is not all that likely to try bluff again on river, and if he's not bluffing, isn't hero happy he didn't get c-raised allin on flop and called when the draw ended up hitting.

On turn, coin flipping hands just lost half their value, or are now crushing hero, but dominating hands in either direction, didn't change much in equity.

I agree hero should call allin check-raise on flop and/or push it himself if hero had indeed bet flop, however I'm arguing that checking behind seems a better option. Also, if/when people disagree, some analysis on why is interesting instead of simply, you're a pussy.