Don Imus

[bkholdem]

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here is some more data for you

children from fatherless homes are:


5 times more likely to commit suicide
32 times more likely to run away
20 times more likely to have behavioral disorders
14 times more likely to commit rape
9 times more likely to drop out of high school
10 times more likely to abuse chemical substances
9 times more likely to end up in a state-operated institution
20 times more likely to end up in prison.


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I call BS on this data set. The books have been cooked.

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That may be so I'm not a statistician and didn't investigate the data at all. I cut and pasted it from a fatherhood website. I would encourage you to go gather some data so we can examine it.

[bkholdem]

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But as you probably know you're more likely to run into "free speech" or "just change the radio station" or "just monitor what your kids listen to" arguments here. Be interesting to see if you don't.

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Why is it so hard to understand that CBS, a company whose reputation and fortune is basically built on appearing as a mainstream news and entertainment outlet to mom-and-pop America, has different standards than say Capitol Records, whose reputation and fortune is built on entertainment provided by a diverse set of artists with lifestyles and opinions quite often outside the fringe of society's mainstream standards.



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This is circular. Capitol records produces similar or far worse content because it's in the business of producing similar or far worse content. I imagine CBS could have gotten around the criticism by saying "we'd like to 'diversify' the entertainment we offer so not only does Imus stay, but we'd like to give C Murder a new sitcom.." and then we'd all just shrug our shoulders because hey, their business model changed.

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That's a ridiculous argument.

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His arguement does not invalidate the previous argument.

[HeavilyArmed]

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Lets suppose you get your way (lol) and it is demonstrated beyond reasoable doubt that blacks have something genetic that makes them different. What do you propose we do?

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This is the key. We adjust our expectations and goals.

For example we might be able to finally admit that more marginal funding for mostly black schools benefits society less than more marginal funding for gifted programs for all races. There are dozens more. Sadly, none will occur.

[EricOF]

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But as you probably know you're more likely to run into "free speech" or "just change the radio station" or "just monitor what your kids listen to" arguments here. Be interesting to see if you don't.

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Why is it so hard to understand that CBS, a company whose reputation and fortune is basically built on appearing as a mainstream news and entertainment outlet to mom-and-pop America, has different standards than say Capitol Records, whose reputation and fortune is built on entertainment provided by a diverse set of artists with lifestyles and opinions quite often outside the fringe of society's mainstream standards.



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This is circular. Capitol records produces similar or far worse content because it's in the business of producing similar or far worse content. I imagine CBS could have gotten around the criticism by saying "we'd like to 'diversify' the entertainment we offer so not only does Imus stay, but we'd like to give C Murder a new sitcom.." and then we'd all just shrug our shoulders because hey, their business model changed.

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That's a ridiculous argument.

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What's ridiculous is suggesting that someone tailor their demands for people to be fired for being "offensive" to whatever market their producers happen to be targeting. The question here isn't "which industry can we expect to self-regulate" but rather "whom else do you want to see fired?" It's a normative argument that some people are making here but it meets some inexplicable road blocks.

[EricOF]

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Here's another study of violent behavior:

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That wasn't a study of violent behavior. That was a victimization survey. It's telling you the breakdown of each race victimized by each crime, not the breakdown of each race that commits each crime. As it happens the NCVS, which is its source, is released every year. If you look at perpetrators of crime by race, you'll get a different picture.

[bkholdem]

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Lets suppose you get your way (lol) and it is demonstrated beyond reasoable doubt that blacks have something genetic that makes them different. What do you propose we do?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the key. We adjust our expectations and goals.

For example we might be able to finally admit that more marginal funding for mostly black schools benefits society less than more marginal funding for gifted programs for all races. There are dozens more. Sadly, none will occur.

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If you are merely curious about genetic differences, what's up with the focus on blacks? Are there genetic differences between genders? between people born in different geographic locations? People with different shoe sizes? People who develop wisdom teeth and people who do not? Left vs. right handed people? etc...

[bkholdem]

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Here's another study of violent behavior:

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That wasn't a study of violent behavior. That was a victimization survey. It's telling you the breakdown of each race victimized by each crime, not the breakdown of each race that commits each crime. As it happens the NCVS, which is its source, is released every year. If you look at perpetrators of crime by race, you'll get a different picture.

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And as you probably know correlation does not equal causation. I am interested in causal factors, where should I go to do a bit of skimming type research on that?

I attended a psychiatric grand rounds seminar once showed an extremely strong correlation between murders by teenagers and single parent homes in Boston, the econimic overlay showed a loose correlation, but when they overlayed for where the single parent homes were most prevalant the correlation was astounding.

And to make sure I don't contribute to the massive derailment of this thread in only this one direction, I would also be interested in seeing what are the causal factors that contribute to making people whiny and demanding [people like] Imus be fired (which i probably would have been for becuase I think he sucks but am against now because I believe in freedom of speech). lol

[HeavilyArmed]

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If you are merely curious about genetic differences, what's up with the focus on blacks?

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It's the one currently costing me the most money in wasted government effort and unneeded social strife.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see no more 130 lb firefighters as well, it's just not as big an issue.

[Bio Woodsman]

If Richard Pryor, Eddie Murphy, Chris Rock or Dave Chappelle had made the nappy head ho comment everyone would have laughed at it and nothing more thought about it other than race allowed humor. Sounds like a double standard somehow. Imus is not that entertaining or informative usually and hardly worth all this fuss, except as it relates to the money of the industry...

[HeavilyArmed]

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Here's another study of violent behavior:

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That wasn't a study of violent behavior. That was a victimization survey. It's telling you the breakdown of each race victimized by each crime, not the breakdown of each race that commits each crime. As it happens the NCVS, which is its source, is released every year. If you look at perpetrators of crime by race, you'll get a different picture.

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And as you probably know correlation does not equal causation. I am interested in causal factors, where should I go to do a bit of skimming type research on that?

I attended a psychiatric grand rounds seminar once showed an extremely strong correlation between murders by teenagers and single parent homes in Boston, the econimic overlay showed a loose correlation, but when they overlayed for where the single parent homes were most prevalant the correlation was astounding.

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The biggest difficulty in teasing out meaningful information lies in source bias. You'll be hard pressed to find any social 'science' that's done without some agenda.

For example, I would not go to some 'fatherhood organization' to find data on the dysfunction of fatherless children.

You should get good data from the US census and the FBI crime stats. After that, ????