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#291
04-14-2007, 05:35 AM
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Re: Don Imus
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] So by continuing with this line of reasoning, all groups in America which are equally disadvantaged economically should be equally represented in crime. Is that the case? It seems clear that economic factors play a significant role, but that does not suggest that culture plays no role. [/ QUOTE ] Jump right out and state it honestly: Controling for income, blacks are very much more likely to be violent criminals and somewhat more likely to be property criminals. It's not even close. [/ QUOTE ] Try controlling for single parent homes and watch how the stats change. [/ QUOTE ] Agreed. The gap will close but it won't go away. [/ QUOTE ] Same for IQ data. Hence, egalitarians must retreat into the world of the unfalsifiable in order to cling to their cherished explanations. But when people throw out these off-handed comments, I'm reminded of the stereotypical lawyer who forgets to never ask a question of a witness unless he's pretty sure what the answer is going to be. 
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#292
04-14-2007, 06:03 AM
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Re: Don Imus
Personal Victimization Rates By Type of Crime and by Race and Ethnicity, 2000 (per 1000 people, white then African American)
Crimes of Violence 27.1 35.3 Rape 1.1 1.2 Robbery 2.7 7.2 Assault 23.3 26.9 Crimes of Theft 1.1 1.9 Total 28.2 37.2 Most violent crime is committed intraracially, so blacks are predominantly committing crimes against one another at a higher rate. Blacks are also arrested at a higher rate for violent crime, including those they are innocent of. Moreover, those who are victimized by blacks are more likely to report than those victimized by whites. Even in light of the above chart, the picture one paints with statistics has to be considered very carefully. (e.g., it's not the black youths killing white grannies shtick predominant in the media)
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#293
04-14-2007, 06:03 AM
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Re: Don Imus
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] JohnKilduff, I agree, for the most part. However, in most of his commentary about black violence, HeavilyArmed insinuates (with a rather heavy hand) that its main causes are endogenous - that is, something about black people, or something about their culture unique and specific to blacks causes increased rates of crime. I think before forming such conclusions it would be helpful, if not outright mandatory to identify all pertinent/possible exogeneous causes, such as the lingering effects of civil right struggle and blacks' low socio-economic status. HA mainly aims to recast Social Darwinism in a different light, IMO. [/ QUOTE ] single parent homes my friend. [/ QUOTE ] Even if this is correct, the only thing it accomplishes is changing the question to instead be about the causes behind why such a large proportion of black children is growing up in single-parent homes.
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#294
04-14-2007, 06:24 AM
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Re: Don Imus
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] JohnKilduff, I agree, for the most part. However, in most of his commentary about black violence, HeavilyArmed insinuates (with a rather heavy hand) that its main causes are endogenous - that is, something about black people, or something about their culture unique and specific to blacks causes increased rates of crime. I think before forming such conclusions it would be helpful, if not outright mandatory to identify all pertinent/possible exogeneous causes, such as the lingering effects of civil right struggle and blacks' low socio-economic status. HA mainly aims to recast Social Darwinism in a different light, IMO. [/ QUOTE ] single parent homes my friend. [/ QUOTE ] Even if this is correct, the only thing it accomplishes is changing the question to instead be about the causes behind why such a large proportion of black children is growing up in single-parent homes. [/ QUOTE ] After we look at what percentage of black children in africa are growing up in single parent homes and compare that to the percent in america that are doing so.
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#295
04-14-2007, 06:27 AM
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Re: Don Imus
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While you're at it, as West mentioned, please explain how the long term effects of slavery and discrimination are controlled for. [/ QUOTE ] Is there any proof that there are long term effects caused by this? (Honest question.) Chinese-americans seem to have suffered more from discrimination/cultural disadvantage than white Americans, yet they still manage to on average have higher IQ/SAT-scores, larger proportion of graduates, significantly lower crime rate, and fewer children born out of wedlock.
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#296
04-14-2007, 06:33 AM
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Re: Don Imus
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] So by continuing with this line of reasoning, all groups in America which are equally disadvantaged economically should be equally represented in crime. Is that the case? It seems clear that economic factors play a significant role, but that does not suggest that culture plays no role. [/ QUOTE ] Jump right out and state it honestly: Controling for income, blacks are very much more likely to be violent criminals and somewhat more likely to be property criminals. It's not even close. [/ QUOTE ] Try controlling for single parent homes and watch how the stats change. [/ QUOTE ] Agreed. The gap will close but it won't go away. [/ QUOTE ] Same for IQ data. Hence, egalitarians must retreat into the world of the unfalsifiable in order to cling to their cherished explanations. But when people throw out these off-handed comments, I'm reminded of the stereotypical lawyer who forgets to never ask a question of a witness unless he's pretty sure what the answer is going to be. [/ QUOTE ] Just a thought, but you might want to start your own thread about the inequality of blacks there EricOF. lol here is some more data for you children from fatherless homes are: 5 times more likely to commit suicide 32 times more likely to run away 20 times more likely to have behavioral disorders 14 times more likely to commit rape 9 times more likely to drop out of high school 10 times more likely to abuse chemical substances 9 times more likely to end up in a state-operated institution 20 times more likely to end up in prison. Instead of trying to prove why black poeple are inferior mabye it would be a better idea to look at why people misbehave in society, why they become disfunctional, irrespecxtive of what color their hair, or eyes, or nail polish, or skin is.
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#297
04-14-2007, 06:57 AM
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Re: Don Imus
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] JohnKilduff, I agree, for the most part. However, in most of his commentary about black violence, HeavilyArmed insinuates (with a rather heavy hand) that its main causes are endogenous - that is, something about black people, or something about their culture unique and specific to blacks causes increased rates of crime. I think before forming such conclusions it would be helpful, if not outright mandatory to identify all pertinent/possible exogeneous causes, such as the lingering effects of civil right struggle and blacks' low socio-economic status. HA mainly aims to recast Social Darwinism in a different light, IMO. [/ QUOTE ] single parent homes my friend. [/ QUOTE ] Even if this is correct, the only thing it accomplishes is changing the question to instead be about the causes behind why such a large proportion of black children is growing up in single-parent homes. [/ QUOTE ] After we look at what percentage of black children in africa are growing up in single parent homes and compare that to the percent in america that are doing so. [/ QUOTE ] I believe in South Africa the black illegitimacy rates are at about 60%. You can look at Caribbean nations while you're at it. You'll find some pretty consistent trends.
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#298
04-14-2007, 07:06 AM
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Re: Don Imus
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] JohnKilduff, I agree, for the most part. However, in most of his commentary about black violence, HeavilyArmed insinuates (with a rather heavy hand) that its main causes are endogenous - that is, something about black people, or something about their culture unique and specific to blacks causes increased rates of crime. I think before forming such conclusions it would be helpful, if not outright mandatory to identify all pertinent/possible exogeneous causes, such as the lingering effects of civil right struggle and blacks' low socio-economic status. HA mainly aims to recast Social Darwinism in a different light, IMO. [/ QUOTE ] single parent homes my friend. [/ QUOTE ] Even if this is correct, the only thing it accomplishes is changing the question to instead be about the causes behind why such a large proportion of black children is growing up in single-parent homes. [/ QUOTE ] After we look at what percentage of black children in africa are growing up in single parent homes and compare that to the percent in america that are doing so. [/ QUOTE ] I believe in South Africa the black illegitimacy rates are at about 60%. You can look at Caribbean nations while you're at it. You'll find some pretty consistent trends. [/ QUOTE ] I have no idea what the trends are but I am curious as to what the overall % is for blacks in all of africa, not select sections.
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#299
04-14-2007, 07:16 AM
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Re: Don Imus
I doubt we can get any reliable data from the governments currently in power. How also do you reconcile the data with those gathered from the West? Is a country with a 30 year civil war's crime rate directly comparable to that of the fairly genteel US? Or maybe a different story is to be told in comparing blacks in Africa by ethnic group rather than the black-white distinction here? Just a few things to consider.
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#300
04-14-2007, 07:18 AM
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Re: Don Imus
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Is there any proof that there are long term effects caused by this? (Honest question.) [/ QUOTE ] Of course not. But this is what I meant by retreating to the unfalsifiable. Egalitarians cling to "causes" that they themselves declare as incapable of detection as though it were proof. This is akin to religious thinking where the devout tell you to prove that God does NOT exist and then go their merry way. I've often wondered just what the shelf life of this line of thinking is. Suppose in 200 years we still see all sorts of inequality of this kind. Think the slavery angle will fly then? Apparently it's some mystical, psychic branding that never fades. And of course, we never seem much inclined to examine the condition of sub-Saharan Africa itself as a reference point. The particular backwardness and underdevelopment of that area of the world rather predated Europe's interest in the slave trade.
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