PSA: PokerStars will not let me cash out -- EVER!

[cardman]

[ QUOTE ]


Maybe I'm way too sensitive about this one.
but 2+2 sarcasm can be pretty dry sometimes and I can almost guarantee there are a few people who will read this thread who are too clueless to understand that chip-dumping ain't such a hot idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

Without question, there will be people who will take that suggestion seriously not realizing it's a joke. You have people stupid enough to respond to spam and stupid enough to fall for Nigerian scams. Stupid sarcastic jokes like these aren't funny unless you put a "just joking" remark after it.

[JPT III]

[ QUOTE ]
JPT -

They say they don't want their place to be used as a money-laundering station without playing any poker.
You say that you played a 'bunch' of poker.
Many 2+2'ers are suggesting that you perhaps did not play enough compared with the amount you had transferred to you.

This isn't hard.
Stop looking into every literal interpretation of their e-mails.
I can look at the same e-mails and try to interpret it to mean that you just need to play more even though they haven't directly stated that.

How many VPP's or FPP's have you accumulated on there?
You say you played 'a bunch' of hands.
But if you accumulated only 1k FPP's or something then clearly Stars is going to be suspicious of a $6k transfer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bob, you're just wrong here. I'm not "looking into every literal interpretation" of their emails. And there is no other interpretation to their emails other than that which is learned from their express language. Their express language is clear and concise: No withdrawal (at least for me) because my initial player to player funding was not "the result of activity on Stars' tables." That's not some unlikely "literal interpretation," my friend, that is a quote of an equivocal statement. Further, just to be sure, I did ask them what options I had, i.e., what I could do in order to be permitted to withdraw. Their response was again clear and equivocal. I can lose the money, or transfer back to my friend.

In the interest of full disclosure, based on some of the FPP figures people have thrown around in this thread, it sounds like mine would be deemed, at least by those on this thread (and I guess by Stars) to be insufficient given the amount I had transferred to me (although remember, I did not attempt to take all of it out, just 5K of 6800). Nonetheless, this is a non-issue. If this were the issue, I wouldn't be complaining here, I'd be multi-tabling! Stars has made it a non-issue.

And just to be absolutely sure, I wrote them back again today, and asked how much I need to play in order to cash out. I asked them to please help me out, and give me some number, to please work with me. They wrote back recently, and confirmed that I MAY NEVER CASH OUT other than what amounts I win above the amount funded, regardless of how much I play. EVER. I guess my "literal interpretation" was correct!

Am I still guilty of "looking into every literal interpretation"? Or do you now believe that Stars means what they say?

Listen people, I understand the money laundering/clearinghouse concerns. I get it. I'm willing to play poker. I guess I owe them some poker. I've been saying all along, please just tell me how much poker I owe! Even if they didn't want to give a precise number (for fear that launderors would then know exactly what the threshold was, and simply aim to exceed it by $1), that would be fine. i can live with an explanation like: "Sorry JPT, case by case basis, based on unique circumstances, etc. etc., but you're way short here. We don't have a bright-line rule." I could live with that. They won't even say that. They're sticking with the rediculous position about "resulting from activity at tables." That's their story and they're sticking to it! My story, to which I'm sticking, is "tell me how much poker I owe you, and I'll do it; I'll play by the rules, just tell me what they are."

[augie_]

being a jerk to me isn't going to help you get your money, especially since i am almost certainly right.

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I owe them some poker. I've been saying all along, please just tell me how much poker I owe!

[/ QUOTE ]

how many vpps do you have? i'd bet they would have no problem with you cashing out after you've reached 20,000-30,000 vpps.

you obviously understand why they aren't letting you cash out. $6k is an unreal amount for 1/2 LHE and about double the standard BANKROLL of people who play 3/6 LHE. not to mention you have a brand new account. things just don't add up in their eyes, and for good reason.

[ QUOTE ]

And just to be absolutely sure, I wrote them back again today, and asked how much I need to play in order to cash out. I asked them to please help me out, and give me some number, to please work with me. They wrote back recently, and confirmed that I MAY NEVER CASH OUT other than what amounts I win above the amount funded, regardless of how much I play. EVER.

[/ QUOTE ]

post this mail please

[Elvis57]

I hope stars reports you too the IRS. Also I hope that they have you send your Id to them.
You dodge the fpp questions. So that says you have not played at all or very little. You probly got 6800 transfered to you not the 5K that you say. You are nothing but a lieing kid.

[JPT III]

[ QUOTE ]
JPT III thanks for starting this thread. I had no idea that PokerStars had this policy. Sorry about your situation.

Seems like these stories of player funds being held by various poker sites for various reasons EXACTLY at withdrawal time is beginning to wear on me. You would think their software would pick up the warning signs when you opened up a brand new account and someone transferred you 6K. But exactly at withdrawal time...

I can NOT believe they would even suggest the option of you keep playing there when you can not withdraw. What's the point of that? Unless they're saying that if you play a whole lot more then you can withdraw, but I think they said you can NEVER withdraw regardless of how much you played.

Your only hope really is to find your friends and transfer back to them. Get a detective if you can't find them. You NEED to find them. Transfer Pokerstars money back to them. Get your money from them. Never play at Pokerstars ever again.

Do NOT try any chip dumping or you will get your account permanently closed as well as any one stupid enough to agree to it.

Good luck on getting your funds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the response Cardman. I've absolutely ruled out dumping my chips. Unlike the current line Stars is taking, I'm sure that's a direct and eggregious violation of STATED TERMS and CONDITIONS. Thanks for the advice and kind words.

[JPT III]

[ QUOTE ]
being a jerk to me isn't going to help you get your money, especially since i am almost certainly right.

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I owe them some poker. I've been saying all along, please just tell me how much poker I owe!

[/ QUOTE ]

how many vpps do you have? i'd bet they would have no problem with you cashing out after you've reached 20,000-30,000 vpps.

you obviously understand why they aren't letting you cash out. $6k is an unreal amount for 1/2 LHE and about double the standard BANKROLL of people who play 3/6 LHE. not to mention you have a brand new account. things just don't add up in their eyes, and for good reason.

[ QUOTE ]

And just to be absolutely sure, I wrote them back again today, and asked how much I need to play in order to cash out. I asked them to please help me out, and give me some number, to please work with me. They wrote back recently, and confirmed that I MAY NEVER CASH OUT other than what amounts I win above the amount funded, regardless of how much I play. EVER.

[/ QUOTE ]

post this mail please

[/ QUOTE ]

Not thrilled about "being a jerk" to you; just frustrated. I apologize to you, and to the XXX dude I lashed out at.

I do stand by my substantive statements however. Like I said, augie, they now tell me I can never cash out and that there is no threshold of play that will permit me to do so. AFter being told that, you can imagine my frustration (and lack of desire and motivation to play there -- although I did play on the train ride home today 'cause I was in the mood). LIke I said above in a post, I get the whole money laundering/clearinghouse concern. Just tell me what I've got to do and I'll do it, I say to Stars. I also think this policy should be stated in writing (is it? anyone?) in order for such harsh enforcement to be fair.

As for my FPP points, like I said earlier, based on the numbers people threw around on this thread, if I stated that number, it sounds like people would say that's a small amount considering the amount of my initial funding. So be it! Again, Stars has made it a non-issue, and people on this site are trying to make it an issue. If there is some threshold I need to reach, I'm happy to reach it! Stars tells me it won't ever matter, I can't withdraw ever.

[MicroBob]

"Like I said, augie, they now tell me I can never cash out and that there is no threshold of play that will permit me to do so. "


They have not directly stated this.
Although it does seem that is their position due to you admitting that this was some loan that this guy was paying back to you.

[Mitch Evans]

[ QUOTE ]
If there is some threshold I need to reach, I'm happy to reach it! Stars tells me it won't ever matter, I can't withdraw EVER.


[/ QUOTE ]

fyp

[mbpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
Seems like these stories of player funds being held by various poker sites for various reasons EXACTLY at withdrawal time is beginning to wear on me. You would think their software would pick up the warning signs when you opened up a brand new account and someone transferred you 6K. But exactly at withdrawal time...


[/ QUOTE ]

It's very easy to understand why it's done at withdrawal time. Take the following scenario:

Player A has $15K in his account (after deposits/play/etc.)
Player A transferred $6K to player B (there is no problem - Stars and other sites allow players funding other players to play poker)
Player B played a few hands and cashed out $5K. That looks like the transfer was not done to play poker but to cashout. That is a red flag for money laundering.

The above is exactly what hapenned, and OP even acknowledged to Stars that the money was sent to him in order to cashout.

This money in Stars' eyes does not belong to player B, it belongs to player A. So Stars tells player B (OP) - either play poker, or return back to player A, who can cashout. So Stars is not holding on this money, it just doesn't allow to use its system for non-poker purposes.

[JPT III]

as requested, excerpt from today's email:

************

[the opening paragraph deals with how much I have played, etc. and talks about how the huge majority of my current balance was due to player transfers] I'm not trying to win this fight on the basis of how much I played, as I've stated over and over and over and over and over. I just want to hear that with enough play, I CAN WITHDRAW someday, somehow.
The remainder of Stars' response confirms this not to be the case. It wasn't just my "literal interpretation" of the emails, as some above have suggested. It is Stars stance and it ain't changing.

************

Now, I would like for you to understand the concept of our transfer
feature. This feature's sole purpose is to allow players to transfer
funds
to each other to be able to use the funds on our tables. You clearly
never
have wanted to use to the funds in your account on our tables and this
is
shown by the amount of time you have held the funds in your account
prior
to cashing out.

As for the amount of play at our tables that you need before we will
allow
a cashout, please know that you will be able to cashout any funds that
you
happen to win on top of the transfer amount you received, however you
will
not be able to cashout the transfers you received. We are not a money
transfer service and expect that a far majority of funds that players
receive as transferred funds are played out on our tables before we
allow
the funds to be cashed out.

Because there are plenty of services available to allow you to move
funds
between each other such as PayPal, I suggest that you return the
transfers
to the accounts that sent you the funds and resolve the owed funds
outside
of our tables.

This matter is considered to be closed and if I can be of any further
help,
simply let us know.

Best Regards,


Ryan
PokerStars Security


----- Original Message -----
From: ********@yahoo.com
Sent: 2007/04/13 14:10:17
To: security@pokerstars.com
Subject: Re: Your BankWire cashout

>Let's try this again. There must be some minimum amount of play (or
rake
generated) which, if I reach, you will let me withdraw MY MONEY. Jorge
states below that "players who transfer funds to others normally do
this so
that the erson who receives the transfer(s) can play at the tables and
not
simply receive a transfer and then immediately cash it out." Please
note
that this is not what I attempted to do. I left the money in for
several
weeks, and actively played poker, on many many occasions, at Stars
tables,
before attempting to cash out part of my balance. Did I not play
enough?
Please try to help me out here. Please tell me how much you'd like me
to
play before cashing out (and how much I have played)....