2nd hand story: Phil Laak $70k angle-shoot

[thisismyback]

In all scenarios you are misleading your opponent, giving them a false sense of hope that they have the best hand. So are you telling me that there are degrees of misinformation that are ethical and unethical?

[thisismyback]

I do think this is pretty lowball but as Ray Zee said, it's your responsibility to ask the dealer to spread the pot and count your opponents stack down.

[kyro]

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The people that think that the scenario described by OP is just good poker..... is it also good poker to lie about how money you have in front of you in a NL game?

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No, that's sleazy. Nothing wrong about the OP, though.

[Zetack]

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In all scenarios you are misleading your opponent, giving them a false sense of hope that they have the best hand. So are you telling me that there are degrees of misinformation that are ethical and unethical?

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Of course there are. How is this even a question?

[thisismyback]

Explain...I've never seen the moralty ethics scale of poker before. I'm pretty excited to see it.

[THAY3R]

So you don't see a difference in checking a good hand on the flop, and making a huge act, calling the floor over, etc. etc.?

[thisismyback]

Ok, I do see a difference in the Kenna James hand. That was a douche move. The Laak hand I don't have a problem with, there is no mention of Laak calling the floor in the two variations.

[gr8vertical]

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Kenna James wrote an article about a hand where he had a full house on the turn vs his opponents small flush, the player had 5K coming via chip runner but only 500 or so on the table - Kenna who at the time happened to be wearing headphones essentially motioned all in vs. the guy who then asked Kenna if he knew that he had 5K behind - Kenna said no and basically made a big production out of getting a floor decision on the bet - floor decision was that the bet stood for the full amount - guy called and lost - Kenna came with commentry like "Yeah right buddy, I'm a professional you think I don't know exactly how many chips you have?" in the article, I thought it was a sick play

but unless there is a specific rule in play - hey thatz poker

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He is a giant douche.

[fsuplayer]

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then its unethical for a player to capitalize on that accident by calling.

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pretty good point.


The story reminds me of something that I think Felicia Lee related a few years ago.
I'm going off memory here so might mess this up.

I think it was at some place where they had a strict rule that if you just said "all-in" you were committed to it.
So some guy is taking advantage of this and nails anybody who mumbles, "I'm thinking of going all-in here" or something like that. He points out the rule and they are forced all-in.

So Felicia gets sick of this guy. The guy bets. Felicia gets AA pre-flop or something. And mumbles some sentence designed to get the guy to do this again like, "one of these times I'm going to get a good hand and put you all-in."

Then, when the guy predictably goes off about it just like always, she goes into a big protest that she didn't mean it, what's his freaking problem, etc etc.
She's really playing up being upset that she was forced all-in if I remember the story correctly.

So he calls Felicia's all-in and loses the hand to her AA and then gets pretty ticked that Felicia essntially out-angled him.

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Yeah i like it when the angle shooter gets out-angled too. Here's a good one John Duthie told me about. He was playing the $100-$200 nl game at the bellagio during the WSOP and he had made the nuts on the river. His opponent was a guy he knew who has this particular move of semi-dropping his chips around the "line". He waits for a reaction or sometimes players even take this as a call and turn their cards over and depending on what he sees he now says he's raising or folding - obviously if he's folding he claims he was just fiddling with his chips while he thought about his action. Anyway john knows this guy is going to do this so now he makes a big bet and looks away, but keeps the guy in his peripheral vision. Sure enough the guy starts playing with his chips and dropping them around where he would call. John lets out a sigh and does a small tap on the table, the sort of tap that most players would take to mean, "good call, I got nothin'". Immediately the guy shoves his chips over the line and gets schooled.

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That's pretty awesome.

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[andyfox]

"Evidently, the $100 chips look nothing like the $5k chips.
The $5k chips are also supposed to be a little bit larger."

This is true. The $100 chips are white, the $5,000 chips bright pink.