flush draws applying odds

[JimBerry]

Playing $1/$2 NL Full Ring most player stacks between $100 and $300 I flp trips against a flush draw. What is the proper pot bet to make it a bad call for the flush draw. $24 in pot on flop.

I want to make the bet big enough it is a mistake for him to call but small enough I have a chance of getting a call.

[85chev]

well your opponent is getting 4:1 odds on his flush so if you want to risk the chance of him calling and hitting his flush, then bet $8 which gives him 4:1 odds to call. However, if you want to make it a mistake to call the flush draw then bet around $10 or $12. However, by betting this much you should chase most drawing hands out of the pot. Honestly if you think the flush draw is out there bet around $10 and be happy to take the pot right there.

[Javanewt]

I thought a flush draw on the flop you only needed 3 to 1 to call? Or is that only if you expect to see both cards? Can't remember, but I know live 1/2 most people don't pay attention to odds, anyway, and they are calling $10 to make $34. Most of them will call $15 to win $39. Personally, I'd make it $12 to $15, and I would expect callers often.

[Capt. Busto]

The opponents odds of getting the flush on the turn are 4:1 so to make it unproffitable for him to call bet anything over $5.
To induce a call it is dependant on your opponents. The more you can bet over $5 and get them to call the better. You would then need to bet more than one fifth of the pot on the turn for the river since he is geeting aproximately the same odds of hitting his flush. If you are betting to induce calls however, you need to be prepared to fold if you think he hit his flush, cuase if he knows you will likely call when that flush card hits the turn or river, then it becomes proffitable for him to draw even if he is not getting the correct odds.

[Bona]

If he has the flush draw he has 9 outs to beat your hand - any of the trumps that pair the board. He could have as few as 7 I guess. Don't forget you have 7 outs on the turn to beat his flush and that will improve to 10 outs on the river if you haven't hit on the turn. Since you didn't refer to any other players I will assume it's HU and he is in position? I would bet whatever amount I thought he might call or raise depending on my read of this player. IMHO When you are likely ahead and you have as many outs as the the villain does it is time to use your reads and build the pot.

[Zameus]

Bet at least $18.

It's not just about getting him to make a mistake, it's also about building a pot with the best hand. In no limit, implied odds come into play. IOW, he can call a $18 bet (taking the worst of it) if he can get you to call a bet if he makes his flush on the turn to make up for his call on the flop.

It's also about not being predictable. How much would you bet if had AK and hit your ace? Probably 3/4 of the pot yes? You don't want to telegraph what you have by betting according to the strength of your hand.

But to simply answer your question, he has 8 outs on the turn at most( a pairing diamond give you the FH) so you're about 5 to 1. If the pot is $24 you should bet anything over $6 since betting $6 means he'll have to call $6 to win $30 (pot + your bet) which is the 5 to 1 he is behind.

[Zameus]

Also, in a 1/2 live game, I wouldn't be surprised if you could bet $30 and still get a call. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Small Fry]

Personally I think this is very dependent on implied odds. If you have about $200 in front of you and he thinks he can get it all if he hits his flush then you need to make a huge bet. If he hits his flush on the turn you still have redraws to the boat.

Example. Pot has $24 and you both have $200. His odds of hitting his flush are 4.2:1 on the next card. You can easily dictate Pot odds by how much you bet. If you bet $8 he'll need to put $8 into a $32 pot - 4:1 almost perfect odds so that a call or fold makes the same money for him. Anything less gives him the correct pot odds to call anything more it is incorrect for him to call, based on just pot odds. Lets say you bet half the pot - $12. Pot is $36 and he needs to call $12 for 3:1 pot odds. He's not getting the right price immediately. Here's the catch. We'll assume he believes that you'll call at least another half pot size bet if he hits his hand on the turn, which is $24 as his call makes the pot total $48. If he doesn't hit on the turn he'll fold if you bet again. So now he can figure that additional $24 into his flop call. So he is putting in $12 for a chance to win $60 (the current pot of $24, your $12 bet and the expectation of winning another $24 from you). His implied odds give him 5:1 odds making a call correct.

This same logic can be applied to you should he make a flush on the turn. You'll have 10 outs for a FH or better on the river. How much does he need to bet on the turn?

[afadeyi]

[ QUOTE ]
well your opponent is getting 4:1 odds on his flush so if you want to risk the chance of him calling and hitting his flush, then bet $8 which gives him 4:1 odds to call. However, if you want to make it a mistake to call the flush draw then bet around $10 or $12. However, by betting this much you should chase most drawing hands out of the pot. Honestly if you think the flush draw is out there bet around $10 and be happy to take the pot right there.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is wrong. i dont know anyone one would fold 3/1 here...36/12

[PantsOnFire]

This question is not that simple. Some of the answers given assume both players know what each other has which is usually not the case.

Trips and a set are much different in this scenario. The flush guy will be much more leary of paired board. Having a set is much better because it is hidden. Also in this case the flush guy might figure his A also has three outs so he might think 12 outs and call a bigger bet.

I think to answer this properly, you might want to describe a specific hand.