NL200 Live: "big" draw?

[TheMainEvent]

I play mostly limit, this is probably my first NL post.

1/2 home game, villian is a weak player, but seems straightforward and a little timid.

Villian ($120) limps on button, I (cover) complete SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], BB checks.

FLOP ($6): A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I lead $4, BB folds, Button raises to $12, I call.

TURN ($30): 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I check, he bets $15, I call.

RIVER($60): Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I check, he bets $15, I fold.

There were no options that felt right on any street. Any ideas?

[raistlinx]

Do you play in this game often? How about calling the river (knowing you are likely beat) to give off a false image about your self? It's a pretty good price to set up some future payoffs if they are regulars. You may even win! LOL

Some people don't mind getting it all in on the flop but there isn't much money from the pf round so I think your play is fine.

[onoble]

If he's timid c/r the turn to $60.

[nation]

[ QUOTE ]
If he's timid c/r the turn to $60.

[/ QUOTE ]

huh? not a chance.

live players who are passive LOVE to call. You will see them calling down with big hands that they should be raising. once a player like this raises or bets more than once, you can be pretty certain they have a big hand (set, two pair).

if you c/r to 60, more often than not, you will get your whole stack in with just a flush draw. Your opponent usually doesn't have less than two pair in this spot. I would c/c turn, and if you hit, make a big bet, close to pot. I like OP's line of c/f on river to 15 bet after missing.

[nation]

[ QUOTE ]
How about calling the river (knowing you are likely beat) to give off a false image about your self?

[/ QUOTE ]

this is silly as well in a weak home game. no need to work too hard on setting an image at the expense of chips, even when you have a big draw like this. just play the hand as +ev as possible, as these players likely don't pay too much attention and will pay you off regardless unless you are REALLY tight.

the fact that you call the raise and call turn bet is enough for you to get paid in the future without a rep of only holding the nuts.

[TheMainEvent]

Yeah I thought the stack sizes made it a little awkward to try to play this hand more aggressively but one argument that perhaps could be made is that the only big hands he is likely to have are A8 and J8, and even if he has one of those there are more combos of J8 and I'm not in bad shape at all against that hand.

Even so, at the time it felt like he wasn't going anywhere.

[raistlinx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How about calling the river (knowing you are likely beat) to give off a false image about your self?

[/ QUOTE ]

this is silly as well in a weak home game. no need to work too hard on setting an image at the expense of chips, even when you have a big draw like this. just play the hand as +ev as possible, as these players likely don't pay too much attention and will pay you off regardless unless you are REALLY tight.

the fact that you call the raise and call turn bet is enough for you to get paid in the future without a rep of only holding the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well that depends on how regular it is really. If you play with the same 6-7 guys every weak they will soon get tired of playing with you if you are constantly destroying them. It will kill the game after a while. The will pay attention to the fact that you are always walking away with thier money after a while.

"You can shear a sheep many times but only skin them once"

However, if there is some turn around in this game with new people coming and going over time I agree.

[Jurrr]

River you are paying for info only, I don't think you're good here often enough to make it EV+.

Other streets are fine.

Checkraising turn is no good; 3betting river would be better but probably still spew.

[onoble]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If he's timid c/r the turn to $60.

[/ QUOTE ]

huh? not a chance.

live players who are passive LOVE to call. You will see them calling down with big hands that they should be raising. once a player like this raises or bets more than once, you can be pretty certain they have a big hand (set, two pair).

if you c/r to 60, more often than not, you will get your whole stack in with just a flush draw. Your opponent usually doesn't have less than two pair in this spot. I would c/c turn, and if you hit, make a big bet, close to pot. I like OP's line of c/f on river to 15 bet after missing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I obviously don't agree Nation.

Timid players are afraid of big numbers and raise sin my experience. C/R looks super strong and unless he he has 2 pair he probably has a weak ace. I don't put him on the monster type hand thats gonna re raise our c/r.

I agree though that calling that river is dumb.

[Worm75]

The way played is fine, I think a turn check raise is horrible with the stack sizes the way that they are, and you are not good often enough here to call the river against a passive player. That being said, I might think about C/R the flop so you get some fold equity, when he has not commited a significant portion of his stack to the pot.