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#21
04-12-2007, 01:31 AM
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Re: 600NL: QJs
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Do you guys really think a lot of people c/r fold here with a bare A? [/ QUOTE ] No, I think a lot of people are c/r here with all kinds of outlandish [censored] and will follow up and fire this turn with high frequency. If you're playing in the same games I am, c-bets are raised/checkraised with such frequency now that shoving this flop is essential just to keep these people off your back. Also, even when called and slightly behind, shania/meta considerations make this +EV imo. [/ QUOTE ] Is it weird that my first instinct when I saw this hand was "shove the turn for value" ? I definitely agree with what you're saying about metagame though, and the fact that our bet just looks like a position bet makes him even more likely to c/r with cheese. 
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#23
04-12-2007, 02:55 AM
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Re: 600NL: QJs
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Do you guys really think a lot of people c/r fold here with a bare A? [/ QUOTE ] No, I think a lot of people are c/r here with all kinds of outlandish [censored] and will follow up and fire this turn with high frequency. If you're playing in the same games I am, c-bets are raised/checkraised with such frequency now that shoving this flop is essential just to keep these people off your back. Also, even when called and slightly behind, shania/meta considerations make this +EV imo. [/ QUOTE ] Is it weird that my first instinct when I saw this hand was "shove the turn for value" ? I definitely agree with what you're saying about metagame though, and the fact that our bet just looks like a position bet makes him even more likely to c/r with cheese. [/ QUOTE ] shoving the turn for value seems like a bad idea. The guy is pot committed with AX. The only value of shoving the turn is worse draws calling - who I think come along on the flop anyways if we shove.
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#24
04-12-2007, 03:15 AM
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Re: 600NL: QJs
[censored], I misread the OP and thought we were pfr
I think the way OP played it is generally best here Sometimes players like Villain will freeze up on the turn even with a pretty good hand and let you see the river for free
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#26
04-12-2007, 03:43 AM
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Re: 600NL: QJs
[ QUOTE ]
shoving the turn for value seems like a bad idea. The guy is pot committed with AX. The only value of shoving the turn is worse draws calling - who I think come along on the flop anyways if we shove. [/ QUOTE ] Yah, I know, but I just thought that it was such a likely bluff, and stack sizes suck for a river bluff+he's committed with draws. Then I realized that he doesn't need to show up with the best hand very often to make that play suck, and he needs to have a good chunk of air, which he probably doesn't.
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#27
04-12-2007, 04:51 AM
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Re: 600NL: QJs
i play it the same.
you can make a easy call for 75$ on the flop and he has for sure a strong hand with that he is willing to put his stack in, if you make your flush. i dont think you have much FE and if its a move, he will give up on the turn. the only problem about calling is, if he is on a worse flushdraw and bets strong on the turn again...
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#29
04-12-2007, 11:30 AM
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Re: 600NL: QJs
shove any gutshot flush draw but not a hand where we only have "opmistic outs"
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#30
04-13-2007, 06:53 AM
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Re: 600NL: QJs
Is taking a free card here really bad 3 handed? (If so, plz explain why)
It seems like charging yourself to draw, when you risk being checkriased with air/trash ( especially if Ax isn't in your cold call range pre) is not optimal. Or do we just have SOOOO much equity that it doesn't matter?
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