show me what to do - nl200

[jii]

Yep, pre-flop is just fine if his ranges and your image gives enough FE.

[HoldEmNewby]

Bet out for $40-45 on the flop, c/f turn unimproved if called, if raised on the flop I really don't see how we expect to be good against villains shoving range. If someone has numbers i'd love to see them but we're against a tight player and we would have to put in approx. $144 to win a pot of $278. Villains shoving range would be Top-pair, over pair, and sets. Am i missing something here?

[Ginge]

[ QUOTE ]
How bad is betting pot and calling shove?

[/ QUOTE ]

My guess is def -EV. Going for a cr all in is a much better option IMO. I prob just bet-fold though.

[TwistedEcho]

Holdemnewby,

Don't be lazy - you should have pokerstove and be able to do this yourself. However, i am feeling nice.

If we cbet $45 we have to call $139 to win $283 and need 2:1 to call profitable (33%)

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 31.437% 30.95% 00.49% 8885 140.50 { 7c6c }
Hand 1: 68.563% 68.07% 00.49% 19544 140.50 { QQ+, 99-88, AQs, AsJs, AsTs, KQs }

If we add JTs, JJ and TT it gets much worse.

Board: Qs 8s 9c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 26.554% 26.10% 00.45% 11628 202.00 { 7c6c }
Hand 1: 73.446% 72.99% 00.45% 32518 202.00 { 88+, AQs, AsJs, AsTs, KQs, JTs }

IN fact, this is the closest i can get

Board: Qs 8s 9c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 32.696% 32.11% 00.58% 10174 184.00 { 7c6c }
Hand 1: 67.304% 66.72% 00.58% 21138 184.00 { QQ+, 99, AQs, AsJs, AsTs, AQo }

Assuming villian folds KQ/JT/88 to a repop AND folds JJ/TT to a cbet

[HoldEmNewby]

[ QUOTE ]
Holdemnewby,

Don't be lazy - you should have pokerstove and be able to do this yourself. However, i am feeling nice.

If we cbet $45 we have to call $139 to win $283 and need 2:1 to call profitable (33%)

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 31.437% 30.95% 00.49% 8885 140.50 { 7c6c }
Hand 1: 68.563% 68.07% 00.49% 19544 140.50 { QQ+, 99-88, AQs, AsJs, AsTs, KQs }

If we add JTs, JJ and TT it gets much worse.

Board: Qs 8s 9c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 26.554% 26.10% 00.45% 11628 202.00 { 7c6c }
Hand 1: 73.446% 72.99% 00.45% 32518 202.00 { 88+, AQs, AsJs, AsTs, KQs, JTs }

IN fact, this is the closest i can get

Board: Qs 8s 9c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 32.696% 32.11% 00.58% 10174 184.00 { 7c6c }
Hand 1: 67.304% 66.72% 00.58% 21138 184.00 { QQ+, 99, AQs, AsJs, AsTs, AQo }

Assuming villian folds KQ/JT/88 to a repop AND folds JJ/TT to a cbet

[/ QUOTE ]

But if I didn't look so helpless all the time I wouldn't get indepth pitty posts like this one [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] NH

[pdoran10]

[ QUOTE ]
There's nothing wrong with pf, get over it.

How bad is betting pot and calling shove?

[/ QUOTE ]

bad. i bet fold, unless i missed something with stack sizes when i looked quickly at the hand.

also. i know everyone is going to hate this, but can we c/c peel one to hit a disguised straight. I mean JJ and 1010 are the only hands in a decent player's range here that we arent going to get blown off our hand on the flop with.

[Paul Thomson]

Bet call and bet fold are about equal EV so I like bet call cause i like variance!

crai would be best if you're certain that he's betting with 100% of his range. But it'll suck if he checks behind on the flop with AK and the turn bricks.

[niffe9]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There's nothing wrong with pf, get over it.

How bad is betting pot and calling shove?

[/ QUOTE ]

bad. i bet fold, unless i missed something with stack sizes when i looked quickly at the hand.

also. i know everyone is going to hate this, but can we c/c peel one to hit a disguised straight. I mean JJ and 1010 are the only hands in a decent player's range here that we arent going to get blown off our hand on the flop with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, I really don't like the check call at all. Even if we had a much stronger draw such as JTo on KQx I still much prefer cb. The only time I can think of where I might check call after 3 betting preflop is when I have KK and it comes down KK3, or K42.
P.S. I think I cb after 3 betting preflop over 90% of the time. This is fairly standard right?