Hand against Borgata Pro

Carmine · #1 04-10-2007, 10:26 PM

I've played with villain a few times before but not extensively. Even though poker is his job I've always viewed him as a lag/fish that gets lucky quite often but maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture. Here is one example from weeks ago:

Pro raises a limper in MP with QJo, one CC and I call in BB w/A9s. Flop comes 997r he bets, CC raises, I 3-bet, he calls?? and we go HU and I lose to RR straight.

On to this session. I played villain the previous day and was completely card dead all day barely being able to find a spot to get my money in. We did get HU in one set over set hand where I capped the turn and he lead the river, I just called knowing I was beat.

Villain should be viewing me as overly tight because of previous day play plus the fact that he has always won the minimum against me with his suckouts. How much of this he remembers I don't know.

I'm going to post from Villains P.O.V. Villain should have a decent idea of my range here. I really curious what you think of his play in this hand.

PF: Villain is MP with J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] UTG limps, UTG+1 calls, Hero(MP) calls, Villain(MP) calls, BB calls.

Flop: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] UTG checks, UTG+1, checks, Hero bets, Villain raises , BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, Hero 3-bets , Villain calls, UTG calls.

Turn 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] UTG checks, hero bets, Villain raises , UTG folds, Hero 3-bets , Villain calls.

River: Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Hero check/calls

bugstud · #2 04-10-2007, 10:30 PM

I don't see where he played his hand poorly except for the turn, and with ten outs it's not a huge -ev sinkhole

27offsooot · #3 04-10-2007, 10:50 PM

I'm confused by the whole posting from villain's POV as if he was "hero" and then saying PF that "villain has J9s".

If he's "villain," i think he played it fine. PF might be questionable from MP2 depending on the line-up, but i think is ok from MP3+.

I wonder more about hero's c/c on the river w/ 88 or 77.

If "hero" is J9s, then he's retarded.

Carmine · #4 04-10-2007, 11:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm confused by the whole posting from villain's POV as if he was "hero" and then saying PF that "villain has J9s".

If he's "villain," i think he played it fine. PF might be questionable from MP2 depending on the line-up, but i think is ok from MP3+.

I wonder more about hero's c/c on the river w/ 88 or 77.

If "hero" is J9s, then he's retarded.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry for the confusion. I am hero. Villian is the pro. I'm trying to show what the pro was holding and at the same time having to read and play against my hand

scags23 · #5 04-11-2007, 12:12 AM

I dont like his turn raise but other than that not bad. What you have? I think you have it out for this guy too much. In that JQ hand he sounds like a donkey but if he is consistently a winning player and u think he sucks his play is above your level. Id quit messing with him. People dont realize this but its very easy to be succesful at poker, target the donkeys, stay away from winners if possible.

jba · #6 04-11-2007, 12:21 AM

really interested in why you didnt bet the river

HOWMANY · #7 04-11-2007, 01:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
really interested in why you didnt bet the river

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Because he's running bad and thinks the fish got lucky against him again after the fish raised the blank club turn, called a 3bet and then a club rivered. As it turns out that happens to be the case so now OP will continue to play worse against the villain which is exactly what he wants.

As for the hand I don't really get the villain's flop raise and I don't think it's terrible but I don't think it's good either. I guess he can clean up his outs a little but I would pretty much always call here after OP bets because I would be giving OP credit for not being terrible so he would probably have some sort of hand. On the other hand if I was the bettor I think villain would do well to raise here because there's a decent chance I have a hand that I'm just going to fold the flop or turn a lot of the time. The only part of the villain's play I hate is the turn because he has like no FE the way OP has played. I think OP checking the river is a mistake. If his river check isn't bad then it means the turn 3bet was.

bdaddy · #8 04-11-2007, 01:42 AM

I like villain's flop raise. It can be a combo of free card, clear up outs play and some good implied odds if he hits straight.
His turn play is horrible spew. He has zero fold equity with the action so far on this dry board, and is very likely to get 3 bet.

Carmine · #9 04-11-2007, 07:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
really interested in why you didn't bet the river

[/ QUOTE ]

Because he's running bad and thinks the fish got lucky against him again after the fish raised the blank club turn, called a 3bet and then a club rivered. As it turns out that happens to be the case so now OP will continue to play worse against the villain which is exactly what he wants.

As for the hand I don't really get the villain's flop raise and I don't think it's terrible but I don't think it's good either. I guess he can clean up his outs a little but I would pretty much always call here after OP bets because I would be giving OP credit for not being terrible so he would probably have some sort of hand. On the other hand if I was the bettor I think villain would do well to raise here because there's a decent chance I have a hand that I'm just going to fold the flop or turn a lot of the time. The only part of the villain's play I hate is the turn because he has like no FE the way OP has played. I think OP checking the river is a mistake. If his river check isn't bad then it means the turn 3bet was.

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I knew that river check would draw a comment. Let me just say this and hopefully end the debate right here although i know nobody wants to hear it.
I could post a dozen hands against this player and there aren't much more than that that we have tangled together. In the majority of those hands I have made a bizarre play weather it be a river C/call with very strong hands or 3-betting turns with air 3-way. My reads have been correct 100% of the time. I know this player. I know I will never miss a bet in that spot, I know i will induce a bet those rare times I need to and I know I will always lose two when behind unless you're in the mood to bet/fold in that pot which I doubt you're suggesting.

Hopefully that statement doesn't come off rude or arrogant

For the record. I like villians flop raise with two overs and a GS and a small chance to win it out right and clean up his outs if not. It's the turn raise into an obvious made hand that I see not only from this pro from a large percentage of 20/40 players in these AC games. As I only have a roll for 10/20 I thought maybe there is something i'm missing. When I see a fulltimer making it, although maybe that's why this 20 player is in my 10 game, I have to question it more.

There are aspects of this players game that I like and I have seen him read hands well. So why, what seems to me, this fundamental error on the turn.

Captain R · #10 04-13-2007, 05:54 PM

I don't like the turn raise by villain either, I don't think you're going to find many here that does. Especially if you seem to always have the right read on him.

He's not doing anything "expert". He just makes mistakes like the rest of us, in this case overly aggressive in a place where it's not going to work.