im like a value detective lol!

[Foucault]

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Che

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
nlhe rewards bold aggr moves

[/ QUOTE ]

Generally speaking, open-raising small pairs in EP is chip-spewing agg, not bold agg, IMHO.

I agree with Woodguy's assessment only I would take it a step further and say if you are not willing to bet flop, push turn on this flop, you should fold preflop.

If you are willing to bet flop, push turn on this flop, you are going to lose a lot of chips when you are dealt small pairs in EP.

Later,
Che

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with roughly 80% of this. except that you got called 3 ways, so you'd much rather have AK here than 44, and I don't cbet AK there either. so there you are.

[Che]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with roughly 80% of this. except that you got called 3 ways, so you'd much rather have AK here than 44, and I don't cbet AK there either. so there you are.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does this mean you regularly open-raise to 3BB in EP with a 39.5BB stack? Where do you plan to make your money?

If you are saying it is OK to occasionally open-raise and then shut down if things get too heated, then there is no point in going forward with the discussion since it is OK to do that with any two cards in the name of "mixing it up." But, regularly open-raising small pairs?

Later,
Che

[Che]

[ QUOTE ]


Quote:
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Quote:
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nlhe rewards bold aggr moves


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Generally speaking, open-raising small pairs in EP is chip-spewing agg, not bold agg, IMHO.

I agree with Woodguy's assessment only I would take it a step further and say if you are not willing to bet flop, push turn on this flop, you should fold preflop.

If you are willing to bet flop, push turn on this flop, you are going to lose a lot of chips when you are dealt small pairs in EP.

Later,
Che


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I disagree with roughly 80% of this. except that you got called 3 ways, so you'd much rather have AK here than 44, and I don't cbet AK there either. so there you are.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oops. I disagree with some of what I said, too. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Should have said "if yada yada, then *limp* preflop" not "fold preflop."

Sorry,
Che

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are saying it is OK to occasionally open-raise and then shut down if things get too heated, then there is no point in going forward with the discussion since it is OK to do that with any two cards in the name of "mixing it up." But, regularly open-raising small pairs?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes you win blinds, sometimes you hit sets, sometimes you get one caller and cbet etc. I don't think this is an optimal table to do it at because of the stacks involved, though, but it's not hideous or anything.

[Che]

I don't like the play in this case since all of the profit centers you mentioned are compromised by the combination of position and stack size:

Win blinds...you could but 6 people with enough chips to call are behind you so you won't win blinds often.

Hit sets...you will at times but you will miss many opportunities to hit your set when reraised while you would have been able to call a raise if you only limped.

Cont bet...this is true of any open-raise but it works better when you have position on the caller, which you freq will not.

All of this is qualitative judgment on my part with no quantitative analysis to back it up, but I *feel* like my results took a big step forward when I stopped raising small pocket pairs in EP. Maybe I just didn't know how to play them properly. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] (Edit: And still don't, apparently.)

later,
Che

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]
But, regularly open-raising small pairs?

[/ QUOTE ]

Over the last 3,953 times I was dealt a pair in a tourney, I'm playing them all profitably excpet 22, 55 and 99....weird.....just checked some hands.....lost some big chip pots near the end of tournies with them....

I am raising them:

Edit: Screwed up the first post, all good now.

22-30%
33-28%
44-37%
55-34%
66-40%
77-49%
88-54%
99-57%
TT-77%
JJ-85%
QQ-87%
KK-84%
AA-79% <------- Ohhhhhh tricky me

I like raising them.

Not all the time, but like Adanthar said, when the stacks are right etc, its fine.

Regards,
Woodguy

[0evg0]

if you look at the stacks you'll see that preflop really isnt that bad

it was unfortunate that the first caller did something retarded by flat-calling, but the 3 stacks next to me should all be pushing or folding, and after that button has me covered and i'm fine playing 44 even OOP 40xbb deep. and the blinds have stacks that are fairly awkward to call OOP with and im very happy if one of them wants to call and c/fold flop like they normally will because a call preflop in their spot is usually fairly bad

[Sherman]

[ QUOTE ]
I am raising them:

22-33%
33-37%
44-31%
55-35%
66-78%
77-84%
88-84%
99-89%
TT-91%
JJ-95%
QQ-96%
KK-95%
AA-97%


[/ QUOTE ]

Why such a big jump? I mean, there are obviously situational/contextual reasons...but 66 certainly can't be that much better than 55. Hmmmm....

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]

Why such a big jump? I mean, there are obviously situational/contextual reasons...but 66 certainly can't be that much better than 55. Hmmmm....

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no idea....that's the first time I ever ran that stat.

Oops, totally screwed up.

Wiill fix

Regards,
Woodguy