hooray! it's a big pot with AJs in the BB!

[Low Limit Loser]

[ QUOTE ]
bilge, reverse-implied odds? We don't have a made-hand, and there is lots of free money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not my post you quoted by I'd like to comment.

Semantics.

The thought I have is that any outs we have will have to be dramatically decreased due to the redaws. I WLL ASSUME someone has a set and someone has a heart draw. If I hit, almost 1/2 the deck will beat me. My outs are not nearly as strong as they seem. FOLD

LLL

[00Snitch]

I don't think I cap it preflop. I know people just LRR in live games for fun, and in fact someone probably would have capped it if you hadn't because capping is fun live. But I would just call the 3-bet.

I hate the flop lead. Just check-call with outs, hit the nuts and scoop a 30 bet pot.

This is a live, laggy table, call it down with the correct odds and massive implied odds when your nuts come in.

I hate it when the T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] falls, but I'll show it down unless things get really bad. i.e. more hearts fall.

I hate it when an Ace falls, but I'll show it down unless they can show me two or more bets cold.

[00Snitch]

When live games go laggy, your options are to hunker down and go on overwatch (no fun) or order a oneway ticket to swingsville and buckle up for the ride (GAMBOLL!).

I prefer the latter.

edit: What im saying is: Dont fold.

[Dr. Matt]

[ QUOTE ]
Str8, I know there is tons of implied odds, what about all the reverse implied odds? How heavily do you consider those in this hand? Maybe I'm just slow, but I don't think I could figure out half of em in the time it takes to play this hand. (This sounds sarcastic, but its not intended to be)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yo Bilge, only outs I see are three T's. I'd assume that any J or A that hits isnt really an out.

[shadow.]

holla calll!!!

why? i love chipsss and i can't wait to drag about a gazillion blue chipsss....

t,

where you playin' w/ 4-bet cappp?

pls tell me you're playing 6/12 now.

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

j

all,

[no [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] for y'all]

holla

[Chino987]

i like it

1) call
2) spike a black T
3) ???
4) profit

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
boz,

thoughts on the flop lead?

router surgery is scheduled for, um, a little later [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. the patient and doctor are undergoing anesthesia.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not leading this flop is just looking for an excuse to fold; other than that it doesn't really change anything. You are getting nearly the worst possible odds the situation could create as it stands, and there's no way you should fold, so what difference does it make? In other words, the only way you're even thinking about folding is if the action goes check-check-bet-raise-3bet-cap, so it's 33:4 to you, but even at that your implieds give you enough overlay.

And, to everybody saying this is a fold: remember, a lot of the cards you're worried about (hearts, board-pairing cards, etc) are likely already in peoples' hands, and we're skilled enough postflop to get away from our hand if a board-pairing heart should fall. Our 3 outs are solid. Making our hand on the turn and getting rivered would suck, but when doesn't it?

IM me once you're back alive, and let me know what time you want to go tomorrow.

Edit: I take it back. If Hero checks and is faced with 4 coming back it's a fold. You need to make up 12 BIG bets and change at that point, so unless all 4 of your opponents are nutbags you don't want to go there. That, however, makes me even more likely to lead, as I don't WANT to fold. You also have no reason to anticipate that the flop will be capped going into it.

[00Snitch]

Yep, this can go bet,raise,3-bet,cap and I'm calling 4 cold getting a gazzilion to four imediate ods and four gazillion to one implied odds.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
The thought I have is that any outs we have will have to be dramatically decreased due to the redaws. I WLL ASSUME someone has a set and someone has a heart draw. If I hit, almost 1/2 the deck will beat me. My outs are not nearly as strong as they seem. FOLD

LLL

[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming that you're in massive trouble is a bit of overkill, even when subject to redraws. I'd still fold, but you don't have to be that much of a nit to make a proper fold. I see hero getting 10:1 with about 2-3 outs and bad implied odds. Easy muck.

I don't mind the preflop cap in a LAGgy game as you probably win more than 20% of the time. In a more standard game, I'd just call and invite everyone else to call.

The flop lead is terrible. You're not taking it down, you're not increasing the chances of taking it without improving, you're out of position, you don't have the best hand, and you're not pumping a draw with equity. I don't see how anyone thinks this is a good flop bet.

[Low Limit Loser]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The thought I have is that any outs we have will have to be dramatically decreased due to the redaws. I WLL ASSUME someone has a set and someone has a heart draw. If I hit, almost 1/2 the deck will beat me. My outs are not nearly as strong as they seem. FOLD

LLL

[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming that you're in massive trouble is a bit of overkill, even when subject to redraws. I'd still fold, but you don't have to be that much of a nit to make a proper fold. I see hero getting 10:1 with about 2-3 outs and bad implied odds. Easy muck.

I don't mind the preflop cap in a LAGgy game as you probably win more than 20% of the time. In a more standard game, I'd just call and invite everyone else to call.

The flop lead is terrible. You're not taking it down, you're not increasing the chances of taking it without improving, you're out of position, you don't have the best hand, and you're not pumping a draw with equity. I don't see how anyone thinks this is a good flop bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

So we agree???????????????????????????????