Don't be this guy

[bav]

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It is true that people keep their chips in front of their cards all of the time, even in places with no official "betting" line, and it is almost never enforced except on the most nittish occasions.

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Oddly enough, in a cash game last weekend an AC player made a remark about such bets. I've gone all in with da nutz, and a youngin' whom I have covered is contemplating whether or not he'll call. His cards are against the rail so he has no room to work beside or behind 'em and he counts out his stack to see if he wants to call (in front of his cards, but still very close to him). I sit quietly and wait and so does the table. Eventually he does call.

After the hand a guy says "why wasn't that called a bet as soon as he counted his chips out? He counted them in front of his cards and in Atlantic City where I play that's always a bet and the dealer always calls it."

So this guy claims it's always a rule. The guy in the tournament in the original tale claims it's never a rule. And in reality it's sometimes a rule.

So what happens if you have your cards forward, count out chips beside and slightly behind 'em, then grab your cards to look at 'em again and bring 'em in closer to you. Now you didn't push your chips forward, rather you moved your cards back. Did the betting line recede in the process?

If you tuck your cards again the rail and your entire chip stack is in front of 'em, did you just go all-in?

I'm not real fond of the "in front of your cards" rule, myself. But I'm less fond of betting lines.

[pfapfap]

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I'm not real fond of the "in front of your cards" rule, myself. But I'm less fond of betting lines.

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Agreed. It should be the clear intent, and in this case obviously the guy was intending to do more. However, the rules that say in front of cards do help with the larger problem of people having cards that not everyone (sometimes not even the dealer) can see.

But y'know what takes care of pretty much every problem, including this one? PROTECTING YOUR HAND. In this case, that means verbal declarations of intent.

[GTL]

i understand the string betting rules. and to some degree i understand why you would want to have a betting line or not be allowed to count out a bet in front of your cards.

however, if someone is counting out chips in front of their cards in a manner that is clearly not angle shooting then i think they should be warned before being forced to call a bet.

when you play with people for a little while, it is generally clear what they do with their chips before they make a bet, raise, or call. if they're not angling, they shouldn't be forced to do something they weren't intending to do.

this would only work in some hypothetical perfect world though.

[pig4bill]

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i understand the string betting rules. and to some degree i understand why you would want to have a betting line or not be allowed to count out a bet in front of your cards.

however, if someone is counting out chips in front of their cards in a manner that is clearly not angle shooting then i think they should be warned before being forced to call a bet.

when you play with people for a little while, it is generally clear what they do with their chips before they make a bet, raise, or call. if they're not angling, they shouldn't be forced to do something they weren't intending to do.

this would only work in some hypothetical perfect world though.

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Exactly! When the string bet was called on me, it was obvious to all what my intent was. I wasn't looking at the 4 other players in the hand to "gauge their reaction", my eyes were on my chips as I was counting them out.

[LasVegasMichael]

If you announce first, you can then take all the time you want to sort, collect, and stack your chips. Problem solved.

[oddjob]

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But I'm less fond of betting lines.

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why? it makes things very clear.

[RR]

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But I'm less fond of betting lines.

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why? it makes things very clear.

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Only if there is a line judge. I have an essay here I have been working on for a few month (meaning I have an outline and I need ot go back and write it) about the problems with betting lines. Betting lines are clearly in smaller markets where people just don't shoot big angles. The main thing a betting line does is introduce new angle to shoot. One I saw most recetnly the other day is a player picks up some chips and throws them forward so they stop short of the betting line. Someone sitting next to the player can see they are over the line, but someone at the other end of the table jsut sees that he threw some chips forward.

[oddjob]

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But I'm less fond of betting lines.

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why? it makes things very clear.

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Only if there is a line judge. I have an essay here I have been working on for a few month (meaning I have an outline and I need ot go back and write it) about the problems with betting lines. Betting lines are clearly in smaller markets where people just don't shoot big angles. The main thing a betting line does is introduce new angle to shoot. One I saw most recetnly the other day is a player picks up some chips and throws them forward so they stop short of the betting line. Someone sitting next to the player can see they are over the line, but someone at the other end of the table jsut sees that he threw some chips forward.

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?? how far away is this player?? how can you not see the chips haven't crossed the betting line.

[RR]

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But I'm less fond of betting lines.

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why? it makes things very clear.

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Only if there is a line judge. I have an essay here I have been working on for a few month (meaning I have an outline and I need ot go back and write it) about the problems with betting lines. Betting lines are clearly in smaller markets where people just don't shoot big angles. The main thing a betting line does is introduce new angle to shoot. One I saw most recetnly the other day is a player picks up some chips and throws them forward so they stop short of the betting line. Someone sitting next to the player can see they are over the line, but someone at the other end of the table jsut sees that he threw some chips forward.

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?? how far away is this player?? how can you not see the chips haven't crossed the betting line.

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One end of the table to other can be about 8 feet. You have to remember that B&M poker is also played by people that are older and can't see so clearly. Betting lines are good for friendly games where nobody is willing to shoot angles. In games (markets) where people are willing to shoot angles it creates new problems that are much harder to deal with. Suppose someone has a large stack of chips in front of him. He places some out over the line, he thens brings them back and puts them back in his stack without giving anyone an opportunity to count them while they were over the line. How many would you suggest he has to put back in the pot?

[psandman]

I happened to play at palace Station the morning they first installed the betting lines.hile sitting at the table waiting for the game to start, the locals nits now began a debate over whether a chip had to fully cross the line, or just a portion o fthe chip, and was it the outside edge of the line or the inside edge of the line that they had to cross?