The Definition of "Sports," What Is and What Isn't

[Muisyle]

The arguments have raged for decades, "x activity" is a sport, isn't a sport, or does or doesn't "count" for some reason. Most will agree that, say, Football, is a sport, but how about Ultimate Frisbee, Skateboarding, or perhaps Ballroom Dancing. There are those that claim Poker or Chess as a sport. The problem is the extremely vague definition which basically allows anything to be a sport. Clearly this is only a simple matter of definitions, and entirely a matter of opinion, but that doesn't mean I can't argue about it. In this spirit I will put forth my own qualifications for what I consider sports, which you of course can accept or reject.

Opening up a dictionary, the definition of "Sport" will be EXTREMELY vague, thus allowing pretty much anything to be claimed as a sport. Check out M-W.com's main definition: "1 a : a source of diversion : RECREATION b : sexual play c (1) : physical activity engaged in for pleasure (2) : a particular activity (as an athletic game) so engaged in" Clearly this could be anything. Dictionary.com is a bit more specific: "an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature" but at the same time provides a secondary definition of: "diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime."

Before I go any further I just want to take a small time out to point out something that needs pointed out: something being a "sport" or not in NO WAY has any bearing on its "worth." If I say ballroom dancing is not a sport, that doesn't mean I am devaluing it below something I say is a sport. It's simply a matter of specifying classification. Inevitably I discuss this with someone only to have them seething in anger "HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT'S NOT A SPORT IT IS SO GDLHGLJGLJGLJ!" which is clearly unnecessary. Moving on.

I draw my personal definition mostly from looking at the "big" sports and seeing what they all have in common. I basically have a sports "checklist," a given activity must meet all of the following conditions in order to be a "sport."

1. It must be an athletic competition in some way.

I do not consider the ability to sit on your ass for 12 hours straight or "mental strain" to qualify in this area, but something like darts I think meets the minimum qualification here. Eliminated: Poker, Chess, Scrabble, Dominos, Spelling Bee, etc. There may be some argument as to whether motor sports qualify (Nascar, F1, Dirt Bike racing, etc) here, but I think most would agree that they do. An extreme case could be made for video games.

2. There must be a winner (allowance for occaisional ties, though ties suck), and it must be objectively scored.

Scoring a touchdown for 6 points, or getting a ball in a basket or a net, etc. Events in which judges decide the outcome subjectively are eliminated. Certain exeptions may apply: in Boxing (and most combat sports) you can objectively win by knocking someone out, but there are also subjective scoring. Gymnastics has subjective scoring, but much of it is objective points deduction. This is on the fence. That said I would probably keep boxing/combat sports but eliminate gymnastics, ice skating, judged "extreme sports", marching band, ballroom dancing and the like.

3. There must be active defense from another player, setting a better mark to compete against does not qualify.

This is the kicker, where we lose maybe many of what people might consider sports. The difference between say Basketball and Golf, two games where you try to get a ball into a hole, is that in Basketball someone is ACTIVELY trying to STOP YOU from getting the ball in the hole. Golf is more akin to, say, a 3 point shooting contest. For this I consider basketball a sport and Golf a "game of athletic skill." Again, this does not devalue Golf in any way, just a classification, no need to get angry. Eliminated: Golf, Darts, Track and Field, Fishing and Hunting (possibly argued that the fish play "defense"), Time Trial car racing. On the Fence: Forms of racing where it is possible to actively effect the times of other players such as Nascar.

I could probably come up with some more but that's plenty for now.

(quick lists, incomplete clearly)

Sports
Baseball
Basketball
Football
Soccer
Hockey
Fencing/Boxing/Westling/Combat Sports (those with objective scoring)
Ultimate Frisbee
Polo/Water Polo/Team Handball
Certain Forms of Racing

Games/Tests of Athletic Skill
Golf
Gymnastics/Dancing/Cheerleading
Darts
Track and Field/Swimming/Diving
Time Trial Racing
Hiking/Climbing

Games/Tests of Mental Skill
Poker
Chess
Scrabble etc

Feel free to propose your own definition, argue against mine or against things I have eliminated, or just call me an idiot with too much time on his hands.

[Guy Incognito]

I picked all except poker, dancing, and skating (assume you're talking about figure skating, I would have said yes to speed skating).

I look at it this way, there has to be an objective scoring method, and it has to rely on your physical ability, e.g. Ivey could sit next to me at a poker table and give me advice, and I'd destroy the game, whereas if Tiger hands me a 3 iron and advises me to draw it 230 yards underneath the pin, I'm still probably gonna shank it into the woods (no chess, scrabble, or spelling).

So I'm in line with your first 2 points, but I don't agree with 3.

[Muisyle]

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So I'm in line with your first 2 points, but I don't agree with 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just think that a distinction needs to be made between games with defense and without. There are a large number of each, yet we lump them all together into one massive category, when they are clearly very different. In Golf you are competing against the course, not the opponent. Sure, you have to beat their score, but again, it's their score against the course. The best golfer against that course will win. In Basketball, you are shooting at the basket, but you are competing directly against the opponent. The best shooter may NOT win if your opponent is the best shot-blocker. I think that deserves a distinction.

[einbert]

Ice skating-you might not consider speed skating a sport, but speed skating certainly is.

I think a sport needs to measure athletic skill or ability in some way and it needs to be objectively quantifiable. It's hard for me to consider figure skating and skateboarding sports as the competitions include elements of style. I would consider ping pong a sport.

Anyway this whole thread is pretty unneccessary and ridiculous. It's a semantic matter which doesn't really make any difference whatsoever, we're never going to have one unifying definition of 'sports' for all people to go by so try to live by the most common one and recognize that people who go against that do so for a reason and figure out what that reason is. That's all I have to say.

[zan nen]

I think questions like this are stupid... Really, what is the point? I kind of didn't care about people besides Sklansky posting before, but somehow crap like this annoys me the most.

[Muisyle]

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I think questions like this are stupid... Really, what is the point?

[/ QUOTE ]

What is the point of debating how many average 30 year old guys could stop Deion from returning a kickoff more than 50% of the time? Or how many total males are better then the best woman at Curling?

The point is just to talk about them because it interests some people (apparently Sklansky). Those posts are the ones I read in this forum, and reading them there are several replies (whether serious or not) saying "oh that doesn't count, that's not really a sport!" So I figured people might be interested in actually giving their personal view on what is and what isn't. Already there are two people who agree with me that it has to be objectively scored, yet that appears nowhere in the official definitions, and things like skateboarding and figure skating are recognized as sports. Thank you for pointing out that it is a mere semantic opinion question though, because I didn't acknowledge that in the first paragraph or anything.

[ QUOTE ]

I would consider ping pong a sport.


[/ QUOTE ]

So would I, it's just smaller scale tennis after all. My question to you is, would you consider a ping pong game in which there is no opponent and your objective is simply to hit a target a sport?

Also I find it interesting that at least one person (assuming everyone who voted picked Curling as a sport) says Ultimate Frisbee isn't a sport.

[drunkencowboy]

I like the topic... It is one that has bothered me before. When people call cheerleading and poker "sports" it irritates me... Not because I dont like cheerleaders or poker players, or the concept of cheerleading or the game of poker, but because they are being categorized incorrectly. There is an actual difference between a sport and a game. Words have meaning people!

Im surprised that the OP said that darts might actually qualify as being a sport. Darts is a game, not a sport. This is why you can smoke and drink liquor and weigh 350 pounds while dying of heart disease and still do well at darts... It is not physically enduring...

Video Games: jeezus no. Not a sport. Ive competed in counterstrike tournaments, and competed at Street Fighter2 and Mario Brothers - and while I may be a virtual athlete, I am not engaged in a sport...

Is competitive eating a sport? No.

Is winning a race in a circle jerk a sport? No.

In my mind the difference between a sport and a game is clear. Hell, cheerleading isnt even a game (although I understand there may be cheerleading competitions). Competitive cheerleading is more like a beauty pageant or American Idol. Not sports.

I gotta go so ill submit but I may come back later to clarify or add on.

[Muisyle]

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Not because I dont like cheerleaders or poker players, or the concept of cheerleading or the game of poker, but because they are being categorized incorrectly. There is an actual difference between a sport and a game. Words have meaning people!

[/ QUOTE ]

This is my point, nothing wrong with a little debate.

[ QUOTE ]

Im surprised that the OP said that darts might actually qualify as being a sport. Darts is a game, not a sport. It is not physically enduring...


[/ QUOTE ]

I consider darts a "game of skill." I qualified it under "athletic" but failed it under the "defense" rule. Clearly there is leeway in what people consider athletic, but this is my view: It takes physical skill to throw a dart, and that skill is inherent to the outcome of the game. Contrast that with Chess, where you may have to physically MOVE the piece, but it does not take physical SKILL to do so, and your skill at moving pieces has nothing to do with the outcome. It's also a question of scale. The difference between throwing a baseball and throwing a dart is merely scale, so I am not willing to draw the line there.

[ QUOTE ]

Video Games: jeezus no.


[/ QUOTE ]

I only said an (extreme) case could be made on the same argument of darts and scale (certain games require large amounts of finger dexterity and hand eye coordination), and allowing for strange physical games like DDR.

[pvn]

[ QUOTE ]
3. There must be active defense from another player, setting a better mark to compete against does not qualify.

This is the kicker, where we lose maybe many of what people might consider sports. The difference between say Basketball and Golf, two games where you try to get a ball into a hole, is that in Basketball someone is ACTIVELY trying to STOP YOU from getting the ball in the hole. Golf is more akin to, say, a 3 point shooting contest. For this I consider basketball a sport and Golf a "game of athletic skill." Again, this does not devalue Golf in any way, just a classification, no need to get angry. Eliminated: Golf, Darts, Track and Field, Fishing and Hunting (possibly argued that the fish play "defense"), Time Trial car racing. On the Fence: Forms of racing where it is possible to actively effect the times of other players such as Nascar.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you include NASCAR, then you have to include all forms of running where runners don't stay in their own lanes (which is, IIRC, any race over 400m).

And once you do this, it's hard to argue that the *addition* of rules can turn a sport into a non-sport.

[Muisyle]

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If you include NASCAR, then you have to include all forms of running where runners don't stay in their own lanes (which is, IIRC, any race over 400m).


[/ QUOTE ]

I put them on the fence, and I'm sure that there are many games which ride the line or fall through the cracks. I'm not particularly familiar with the rules of either NASCAR or distance footraces, but if in Nascar you are explicitly allowed to PREVENT someone from passing, and in running you are not (can't swing an arm out to stop someone from passing you or something), that would seem an important distinction.

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And once you do this, it's hard to argue that the *addition* of rules can turn a sport into a non-sport.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's certainly not hard to argue that. If I add a rule into basketball that says you are not allowed to block shots and you must give players an open drive to the lane, I would say it goes from being the sport of basketball to the game of skill of shooting.