4/180 Help on flop and turn

Merek007 · #1 04-03-2007, 10:14 AM

12 left we are 6 handed . Villian is 66 15 over 45 hands. I have been trying to get his chips for a while. He over values pairs, and bluffs a lot. Resently lost 1/3rd stack on A high flop and A turn w K3.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t800 (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB (t23873)
UTG (t14555)
MP (t8190)
Hero (t23245)
Button (t60990)
SB (t24552)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K

, Q

.
i]2 folds[/i], Hero raises to t2400,2 folds[/i], BB calls t1600.

Flop: (t4250) K

, 2

, A

2 players)
BB bets t4000, Hero ??????

turn to come

Fiksdal · #2 04-03-2007, 11:10 AM

His flop agression factor is pretty important here.

It's a tough spot. I might just fold it, but I can't see floatinh in position as a huge error. The problem with it though, is that it's gonna build a huge pot, and it's unlikely to get you a showdown because villain is probably putting out at least one more bet on the next two streets.

Villains range this far could be Ax, KQ/KJ/KT/, two clubs, possibly random blind defense? A fair portion of it is probably Ax against this guy though. I don't think 22 is in his range, because I'd be surprised to see him lead out with it.

Against guys like these, I'm not very scared when they call down my bets. I'm more afraid when they actually bet though, that usually means some kind of hand.

Merek007 · #3 04-03-2007, 01:52 PM

TURN is a Qd ....

THis where I get lost. Does pushing or betting gain the most for the least risk? We have 2 pair but AK AQ Aany are in his range. Do we push as he is likely to call w TP or bet and control pot size?? He likes to bet out and is not a pushbot...

Fiksdal · #4 04-03-2007, 03:51 PM

The Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] is a maginificent card for us. The problem with the flop was that against a guy with a 60% VPIP, a lot of his range are Ax, all the way down to teh weak suited aces. Those had us beat. Luckily, they don't anymore on this turn. So we are happy to see this card, and are now villing to go to the felt most of the time. The pot is now t12000 and we have about t18000 left in our stack.

You forgot to write villains turn action. Anyway, if he bet then push over his bet. If he checked bet t9500 and get the rest in when given the chance to.

Merek007 · #5 04-03-2007, 05:00 PM

Villain Bet $6,000 on turn. I pushed and he had A2. The range was right, just unlucky he hit the two pair.

I was thinking I should have just called and got the rest in on the river. If he was bluffing he would fold to push/RR. Arag or Krag he might fold to push/RR, but he would never fold to a call/$8,000 bet on river. A push likely loses his bets when he has iffy hands and doesn't change anything when he has better hands? Although it loses the chance of him hitting a A or pairing up on river.

Hummm??? Ok, I'm convinced...RR or push on turn. 12 left don't give him a chance to suckout with a worse hand.

Still trying to learn to extract the most value at the least risk. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

holdemft · #6 04-03-2007, 05:17 PM

Ax is something you just have to deal with in the 4/180s. Your average 4/180 regular will play most A's in their hand, regardless of the other hole card. Anytime an A hits a flop, Aces up is always a possible holding, regardless of the other 2 cards.

The Q ended up being a cooler for you, and you were bound to go broke after the turn. I think I would have folded the flop, Fiks had it right when he said

"Against guys like these, I'm not very scared when they call down my bets. I'm more afraid when they actually bet though, that usually means some kind of hand. "

He made an open PSB into a 3x PF raiser. He told you right there he had an A.

Cablelessray · #7 04-03-2007, 05:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ax is something you just have to deal with in the 4/180s. Your average 4/180 regular will play most A's in their hand, regardless of the other hole card. Anytime an A hits a flop, Aces up is always a possible holding, regardless of the other 2 cards.

The Q ended up being a cooler for you, and you were bound to go broke after the turn. I think I would have folded the flop, Fiks had it right when he said

"Against guys like these, I'm not very scared when they call down my bets. I'm more afraid when they actually bet though, that usually means some kind of hand. "

He made an open PSB into a 3x PF raiser. He told you right there he had an A.

[/ QUOTE ]

if he lost 1/3 on a K3 with a Ace on board recently, it's important. if it was recent, he's prebably not gonna do it again that fast. if it was a while back, i'd act thinking it was much more likely.

holdemft · #8 04-03-2007, 05:32 PM

You'd act thinking it was much more likely he was...bluffing? or had the A this time?? I'm not sure what you mean.

Cablelessray · #9 04-03-2007, 05:35 PM

this time? more likely he had the Ace... i don't think he's gonna make the same double barrel without an Ace right after he just did it. i mean honestly he just got caught for it.

Merek007 · #10 04-03-2007, 05:53 PM

Against anyone else I fold the flop easily, but too focused on taking the donks money and not enough on the situation. You are right, the flop is too marginal to play at this point. I have 2nd pair and a unreadable villian who 50%+ has a Ace and is guarnteed to bet. ...I should find a better spot.

The K3 betting on A3T A board was 4-5 hands ago and he had played all of the hands in between including winning a good pot. But Cable is likely right... he probably kicked himself for that and tighened up a bit.

The reason he had decent a stack was bet his trash the same as the good cards...and got enough good cards. Once we were ITM and had 5-6 decent players at the table he was doomed... He crashed in 8th even though he was the 2nd biggest stack after knocking me out in 12th.

Thanks.....Maybe one day I won't be the donk [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]