L@TB, Deep. I've read too many poker books.

[Garland]

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I think you're just a huge nit, looking for every excuse you can to fold a hand that isn't the nuts.

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I do fold a lot, probably too much for my own good. But my point on this hand is that 3-betting a good player out of position here is not a profitable move. I'm more apt to do it against Corporation Mike than him.

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Take that fwiw, but from what I've seen of you on LATB you play an incredibly weak tight game,

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You're probably right, but I have a reason to on the show. I take advantage of what I call "LATB syndrome" where players are apt to play way many more hands and show off (read: make more moves and call too much) in the effort to impress the audience and/or to not look bad. I played the situation when I'm there and try not to take advantage of players who are less apt to fold in that game.

[ QUOTE ]
Good players just won't pay you off,

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Other than Mo, who on the tables I'm playing would you consider "good"? I get paid off plenty by bad players. That's good enough for me.

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Now the vast majority of his raising range is folding to a 3 bet.

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I'd say he's calling with 99+, AK, and occasionally some kind of speculative hand, but rarely.

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With stacks this deep, these statements are wrong. Ari's probably calling a majority of his 3 bets that aren't simple garbage in the effort to connect. Why 99+? He'll should call with any pair to set. Suited connectors are more borderline, but playable in his spot.

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which bodes ok if you're going to start running some big bluffs, but I haven't seen that out of you either, so I'm going to say that you don't bluff often enough too.

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I rarely run big bluffs on the show because I don't need to and don't really want to advertise it there, but I do it an average of once or twice per long session.

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although I would have 3 bet a little smaller to like $350

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I initially thought $500 was too much too. Now, I actually like $500, which is a pot-sized raise rather than $350. Another $250 with stacks that deep makes it way cheap for Ari with just about any thing he holds.

Thanks for your reply. Good to know someone is actually paying attention to me. Good to hear people's view of me too.

Garland

[aislephive]

[ QUOTE ]

I do fold a lot, probably too much for my own good. But my point on this hand is that 3-betting a good player out of position here is not a profitable move. I'm more apt to do it against Corporation Mike than him.


[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno, I think that I'd be less inclined to 3 bet a guy like Corp. Mike light OOP, as he very rarely folds to 3 bets preflop, and makes a lot of moves postflop and will you put you in some tough spots. I'd want to play a more solid hand range against him.

[ QUOTE ]


You're probably right, but I have a reason to on the show. I take advantage of what I call "LATB syndrome" where players are apt to play way many more hands and show off (read: make more moves and call too much) in the effort to impress the audience and/or to not look bad. I played the situation when I'm there and try not to take advantage of players who are less apt to fold in that game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah and I definitely understand that, but a guy like Corp. Mike gets paid off in general much more than somebody like you. That doesn't quite convey my point because it's debatable if Mike is even an overall winning player with his tilt streak, where as you're obviously a solid winner, but I think trying to play more hands against weak players is an overall sound strategy, and identifying spots to put pressure on people preflop/postflop as well. I'll admit it's a lot easier to play when you can see the hole cards, though.

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Other than Mo, who on the tables I'm playing would you consider "good"? I get paid off plenty by bad players. That's good enough for me.


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Yeah, there aren't many stellar players in the games at the Bike, but people are observant generally. Two extreme examples would be Crazy Ed Schanizarian who plays insane and gets paid off by so many weak hands and is pretty much always the biggest winner or loser at the end of the night (obviously an overwhelming majority of the time he is the biggest loser). People will overadjust to him by either waiting for the nuts to bust him, or loosening up significantly and stacking off easily, and both can be viable strategies against him. On the opposite end of the spectrum, there is somebody like Tight Kirk (not to be confused with 2p2 Kirk) who plays probably the tightest game I've ever seen of anybody preflop. People just DON'T give him action, unless they're total donks who are just there to give their money away, of which there are a decent amount of those players to be found, but in general you can't rely on always playing with really horrible players, you have to settle for slightly better but still very mediocre to bad players with poor fundamental play. What I'm trying to say, is that people DO pay attention. If they see you in a decent amount of pots (enough to be remembered anyways, heh) and taking down more than your fair share as well, they'll adjust poorly and you'll profit immensely. But if you're playing really tight and not getting involved in many pots, people will adjust by not giving you as much action. Usually it still works out for you ok, as typical live players play too loose for their own good and overplay hands. But as I said before, I think you're just leaving money on the table by playing that tight.

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With stacks this deep, these statements are wrong. Ari's probably calling a majority of his 3 bets that aren't simple garbage in the effort to connect. Why 99+? He'll should call with any pair to set. Suited connectors are more borderline, but playable in his spot.

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Even though stacks are deep, it's a mistake to think you need to be instacalling with all pocket pairs / suited connectors. Kirk does not have a narrow range when he makes this reraise, and I'm sure he would love for Ari to be calling him with small pairs to set mine or a suited connector to flop gin then folding the flop when he misses, which will be extremely often. From seeing Ari play, he hasn't called any reraises with weak hands, so I really don't think he is going to call preflop the majority of the time without a solid hand like a medium pair or AK/AQ, even with deepish stacks.

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I rarely run big bluffs on the show because I don't need to and don't really want to advertise it there, but I do it an average of once or twice per long session.


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I don't even nessicarilly mean big bluffs, just identifying good situations when somebody is likely to not have a big hand and applying pressure will do the trick, which could just be a second barrell, a light preflop 3 bet, or a flop 3 bet bluff, etc. You don't have to force it (and shouldn't), situations will arise.
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I initially thought $500 was too much too. Now, I actually like $500, which is a pot-sized raise rather than $350. Another $250 with stacks that deep makes it way cheap for Ari with just about any thing he holds.

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Yeah I agree with you, although I might make it $400-450 instead, but I'm just being nitpicky.

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Thanks for your reply. Good to know someone is actually paying attention to me. Good to hear people's view of me too.

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No problem, hope you got something out of it. Gl.

Garland

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[luegofuego]

a5,

how often do u play really really deep high stakes no limit?

[aislephive]

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a5,

how often do u play really really deep high stakes no limit?

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I have little experience playing HSNL if at all, but I've watched hundreds of hours of high stakes deep no limit games on LATB, as well as having sweated some top HSNL players at stakes up to $100/200. I understand it's easier to point out that I don't play HSNL than it is to show me where I'm wrong / my logic is flawed, so I'm not going to continue humoring you if that's where you're going with this.

[PokerAmateur4]

Why do you want to run it twice? Isn’t that largely –EV compared to running it once for you? How does the dialog go? I’m unfamiliar with how this custom actually can go down, as I’ve never seen it done in a game of mine. If you can elucidate this for me I’d appreciate it.

As for the push/fold decision on the flop I don’t know, I think Garland made some strong points that are to be weighted towards folding; also I echo ggbman/Phresh. I think it’s good you are thinking about finding a spot to push where a lot of people would have mostly not thought about it and just folded, but I think it’s a strong fold here.

Aislephive,

You makes some good points, I was unclear, would you push or fold after the 2300?

[wdead]

i dont think a good player is ever raise folding a flop like this

[aislephive]

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you want to run it twice? Isn’t that largely –EV compared to running it once for you? How does the dialog go? I’m unfamiliar with how this custom actually can go down, as I’ve never seen it done in a game of mine. If you can elucidate this for me I’d appreciate it.

As for the push/fold decision on the flop I don’t know, I think Garland made some strong points that are to be weighted towards folding; also I echo ggbman/Phresh. I think it’s good you are thinking about finding a spot to push where a lot of people would have mostly not thought about it and just folded, but I think it’s a strong fold here.

Aislephive,

You makes some good points, I was unclear, would you push or fold after the 2300?

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Make no mistake, "running it twice" does not affect the EV of the hand at all. It just reduces the variance.

And I would fold to the flop raise for sure, but preflop is fine from time to time IMO and his flop bet is pretty standard.

[PokerAmateur4]

[ QUOTE ]
Make no mistake, "running it twice" does not affect the EV of the hand at all. It just reduces the variance.

And I would fold to the flop raise for sure, but preflop is fine from time to time IMO and his flop bet is pretty standard.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think I was mistakenly thinking if you're an underdog in the hand, it's sort of like the favorite is acting as the house in, say roulette, and thus you wanted to bet as little as possible. I just realized its the same amount no matter what. So you're saying it doesn't ever matter for either party if you run it once or a million times?

If it is soley variance, then it's just a matter of whether you want to have variance or not? When you are taking the worst of it do you still not want variance?

[TubeRiderjj]

Your read on his play is spot on. Nothing wrong with the way you played it other then who you made the play on. He is just flat out goood, you know he tightens up. He folds...or you're in a world of hurt.

[shootaa]

this is a pretty bad board for him to bluff you on unless he thinks that he can make you fold AA/KK or induce a shove from whatever. given that you've been 'getting hammered' id be less inclined to see this as a bluff since he may think you're tilting or felting a little lighter for whatever reason.

if he's mixing it up enough, he'll have to call here with aces to protect himself for future situations like this (idk if this makes sense, hard concept to articulate i guess) in so far as his bluff raises could be re-bluffed on or you could be shoving with hands against which he has decent equity like QJ or w/e.

have you reraised him light in the past? and does he call you light out of position at all? i think these two things have a lot to do with what your decision should be. he could be doing this with QJ and maybe fold it to your push... but without more information to persuade me, i think that this is a pretty bad spot for a bluff (even though he knows this too) because SOOOOO much of his range is going to be hands he can't fold, esp given that you're already down 2.4k, the aggro image/past you probably have if you're ever been caught doing this... etc.