Dog Track strategy LHE

[SpleenLSD]

I live here in Florida where max ring game stakes are $2, on all betting rounds. With a max $5 rake (on a $45 pot) plus tips, the game has to be -EV, but I continue to play because it's the only opportunity to keep my live game sharp in between Vegas and AC trips and because online can just get boring sometimes. Remarkably I'm positive in sessions this year, but I just chalk that up to variance. I think I have a good strategy for this oddball game, but I'm curious how others might play it.

The game is straight 2 LHE, which here in FL means a 9 handed game with a $1 SB and $2 BB. Bets on all streets are $2 with a max of 3 raises, so betting is capped at $8 from pre-flop to the river. Players are *very* loose/passive with 4-6 players seeing a flop and 2-4 at show down. Evenings and weekends are more maniacal as players drink and see more pre-flop raises & caps. Bluffing is impossible.

Clearly this is something of a sad game with the high rake, tips, and static bet size. Still, I like to keep my live table manners and reads (such as they are) fresh so I make the 10 minute drive every week or so. I also get a healthy amount of baseball talk with the Old Timers (hey, it's South Florida) and there's hardly a nit around. I'm curious to hear how others might approach this game and I'll post my own approach in a day or two, assuming I get any replies. Thanks for taking the time to consider this question given its departure from conventional (profitable) games.

[hazillow]

Obviously the best way to play this is very classic TAG. Value bet and no slowplaying. If they often check to a raiser, raise strong draws to pick up a free card. Pretty standard.

Edit: And suited connectors are much more valuable.

[jstill]

same way they set up the games at the local charity card rooms in New Hampshire. I had a post awhile back asking if the games were beatable, everyone assured me no yet I still have crushed these games. The people are bad enough I think u could beat this game long term even with the [censored] rake and tips.

just play straight TAG and u ll crush them. people dont care u havent played a hand in an hour and raise UTG they all still cold call with T8s and A7o. limp along with any suited connectors 1 gappers after several limps other than that its pretty much playing poker without even having to think much if at all.

[MrWookie]

Actually, suited connectors go down in value. Since the bet size is small on later streets, implied odds are much lower for these sorts of hands. AK fares proportionately better in this structure, because the cost of getting TPTK cracked is much lower. Suited connectors would prefer a betting structure which, by street, went something like 2/2/4/8, so as to maximize their implied odds.

[jstill]

u still cant pass up seeing a flop when ur in the hijack - button with them tho and 4 people limp to u tho rite?

[endo]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, suited connectors go down in value. Since the bet size is small on later streets, implied odds are much lower for these sorts of hands. AK fares proportionately better in this structure, because the cost of getting TPTK cracked is much lower. Suited connectors would prefer a betting structure which, by street, went something like 2/2/4/8, so as to maximize their implied odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't suited connecters gain some value for being able to see a river card really cheaply?

Maybe a flopped weak draw such as a dummy end gutshot would suffer less from negative implied odds also?

I suppose small pocket pairs are devalued here though?

[endo]

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously the best way to play this is very classic TAG. Value bet and no slowplaying. If they often check to a raiser, raise strong draws to pick up a free card. Pretty standard.

Edit: And suited connectors are much more valuable.

[/ QUOTE ]

The free card play is worse now isnt it? You are no longer saving any money with it! You put an extra small bet in to save another small bet later? lol

[hazillow]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Obviously the best way to play this is very classic TAG. Value bet and no slowplaying. If they often check to a raiser, raise strong draws to pick up a free card. Pretty standard.

Edit: And suited connectors are much more valuable.

[/ QUOTE ]

The free card play is worse now isnt it? You are no longer saving any money with it! You put an extra small bet in to save another small bet later? lol

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahaa, yeah. Wasn't thinking.

[SpleenLSD]

OK, so after 2 years here in FL (I'm here from Philly and played low-limit in AC regularly for 15+ years) I think I've gotten used to this weird 2-2-2-2 structure in LHE. I've been keeping records for 5 months now and I'm currently in the black, but I'm not so sure this game is beatable in the long run. I'll report back after I have a year of data.

IMO, TAG is the way to go with an emphasis on aggression, particularly pre-flop with very strong hands. Players are very, very loose/passive in this game and folks will call almost any raise pre-flop if they have any $$ in the pot. It's basic small stakes strategy, but the players are even looser and more passive. You will regularly have 6 people seeing a flop and 3 at showdown.

Given the static bet size, players (even if they don't know it) frequently have the odds to call down inside straight draws and the like. There can easily be 15 bets in the pot before the turn card hits. You can play a much wider range of hands at the button or cutoff, but keep to suited one or no-gap connectors and the like. Many times you'll have the odds to hit that four-outer on the river yourself.

No one has any memory in these rooms. The tight/passive old timers will think you're a maniac because you raise, even if you do so 1 out of 15 hands. The younger LAG guys will think you're an "action" player and never notice you don't play Ace-rag or J4s like they do. Bluffs are worthless; you will get called.

BTW, night time the table complexion typically turns very LAGgy. Players are younger and drunker. Betting rounds are frequently capped, especially late when players that are stuck a rack or two are trying to catch up. Variance increases so I typically get even a bit tighter and wait for the drunk and desperate to wade in to you with any two cards. Post-flop you do have to respect the board in that half the table is playing any two cards from any position and looking for a Bingo.

The funny thing about these FL poker rooms is that as bad as the play is, I've seen similar poor play at 4-8/5-10 in AC, Vegas and AZ. The barrier to +EV here is the big rake and small static bets. No beef about tips. As a postscript, the rumor mill is that the state is considering higher stakes games, maybe up to 5-10. Not all that long ago, FL poker was .25-.50. There is legislation currently to add banked card games (e.g. Blackjack) in FL, so higher limit ring games may be allowed in an effort to support tourism, increase revenues and allow State regulated gaming to compete with the Indian casinos.

[endo]

Thnks for the post, I was thinking about this structure all weekend and I don't know why. Are you still playing low pockets up front? It seems like they would lose a lot of implieds and get drawn out on more or at least not paid as much by drawers drawing to the river.