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#21
03-29-2007, 03:43 PM
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Re: Single Most Important Peice Of Advice For A Newbie?
I agree with pzhon. Bankroll management is not a first principal of winning poker. It is important for winners, yes. But not for losers. No ammount of skill in bankroll management will prevent a losing player from losing. In then end, they must lose.
A newbie player may win or may lose thier first few sessions out. They may even start out over thier head with a tiny roll, hit it big, move up and develop a huge bankroll. But that doesn't mean they are winning players. Usually they are losing players who haven't yet actually lost. Newbie players are almost universally losing players, even if they happen to win. The first order of buisness must be to teach them to be winning players. Not how to optimize thier risk of ruin. 
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#23
03-30-2007, 07:51 AM
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Re: Single Most Important Peice Of Advice For A Newbie?
Patience is a virtue, Grasshopper.
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#24
03-30-2007, 10:07 AM
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Re: Single Most Important Peice Of Advice For A Newbie?
Personally I think bankroll management is right up there for beginners. Only because if they can start with the proper amount of buyins etc at what ever level they play, they will last longer.
A friend started playing online after talking with us in a homegame. He deposits $50.00 and first thing he is doing is playing NL25, and $5.00 sng's. Sure fire way to have to redeposit. Its easier to get someone to believe bankroll managment than it is to get them to understand the "longterm" of poker, and variance. Since they are playing 1 table normally, they are not going to believe the downswings of 8 - 10 buyins due to crap hands/coolers in a 3000 hand swing. Bankroll management will help them stick around longer, and be able to see the ups and downs for themselves.
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#25
03-30-2007, 02:22 PM
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Re: Single Most Important Peice Of Advice For A Newbie?
[ QUOTE ]
A friend started playing online after talking with us in a homegame. He deposits $50.00 and first thing he is doing is playing NL25, and $5.00 sng's. Sure fire way to have to redeposit. [/ QUOTE ] No, it's not at all sure that someone will bust out with 2 full buy-ins in NL $25 or about 10 buy-ins in SNGs. In fact, I'd be willing to bet 5 figures that I could turn $50 into $1000 by starting at those stakes. I think I'm more than a 3:1 favorite not to bust out. That's because I'm a solid winner (and know the ror math). While a 25% risk of ruin is unacceptable to me as a semi-professional player with my actual, substantial bankroll, it would be fine for most casual players who deposited $50. Of course, a casual player would not win at my rate, and would therefore have a much higher risk of ruin, close to 100% for a novice. When you say that a small bankroll is a sure way to bust out, you are failing to mention or address the real reason. Poker is a game of skill as well as luck and novices (and most experienced players) do not have the skill to win. Do you see how far out of context the standard bankroll advice is? [ QUOTE ] Its easier to get someone to believe bankroll managment than it is to get them to understand the "longterm" of poker, and variance. [/ QUOTE ] In fact, the people saying to tell beginners about bankroll management before telling them how an advantage gambler thinks about poker are not even giving them good bankroll management advice. In case they become winning players, they will have to unlearn it later. How large of a bankroll does a player need to play NL $25 with a 1% risk of ruin? If you come up with a number of buy-ins, you are wrong. (Yes, some FAQs are wrong. They haven't cited enough of what theorists have written yet.) But that's what people are doing here. They aren't just misguided by jumping into a bankroll discussion which seems important to them, and which they project onto players who don't need it. They are giving incorrect bankroll advice. The bankroll a winning player needs depends on playing style (variance) and win rate. Win rates vary a lot, from game to game and player to player, and therefore so do bankroll requirements. You can't rely on a fixed number of buy-ins to make you safe, contrary to the sloppy bankroll advice people often give on these forums. Microstakes players shouldn't feel scared or irresponsible when they play with a number of buy-ins with which high stakes players would be dangerously underbankrolled. Novices do not have a win rate. If you do not explain this properly, you are doing an even greater disservice to the few novices who will move on to become winning players and who will later need to unlearn what you are telling them about bankroll management. [ QUOTE ] Bankroll management will help them stick around longer, and be able to see the ups and downs for themselves. [/ QUOTE ] A novice playing $5 SNGs will see a lot of poker on average for a $50 deposit. Someone who loses $0.50 per tournament will get to play almost 100 tournaments with that $50 on average. The amount a winning player would need to have a microscopic risk of ruin is not relevant. It is far more important to tell a novice who comes here how a winning poker player approaches the game, and what some common poker mistakes are of casual players.
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#27
03-31-2007, 04:51 AM
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Re: Single Most Important Peice Of Advice For A Newbie?
I think one thing you should always do is respect your opponents enough to try to understand their game. If you read these forums long enough it will be easy to see most players as idiots. Nearly everyone refers to the villian in the hand as a donk or something similar.
If you view your opponents as idiots you'll always be playing your cards and won't reach the higher level thinking that makes this game fun and challenging.
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#28
03-31-2007, 11:05 AM
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Re: Single Most Important Peice Of Advice For A Newbie?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Fold more. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] Preflop
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